England: What went wrong? (serious discussion) **SPOILERS**

The FA went wrong.
Appointing Sven was a fair risk, but to keep him after the performances we put in almost from the start of his reign was cowardly, or probably just down to the fact that they couldn't afford to sack him because they'd made a massive error with his pay & conditions in his contract. His results have been ok, but with the players he's had we should have at least got to a final of a major. The talent he's had has been wasted, everyone can see that, except the FA apparently.
Would the FA's of Brazil, Germany, Italy etc. have accepted the failures Sven had? No, he would have been out mid term, because other FA's aren't stupid enough to appoint someone on the ludicrous contract Sven had, & if they did they would have had the bottle to get rid of him, not just keep him in place just hoping he would save them face & money.
 
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M0T said:
No, this is completely the wrong track to take. If you build a team round a player then you get completely stuffed if you lose them for whatever reason.

Sven had the right idea in that he knew what he wanted to do and how he wanted to play, but for some reason instead of picking the best players for the job he decided to pick the 'best' players and hope that they would adapt to the role.
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Perhaps, probably why im not a world class football Manager :p
 
from outsider point of view
rooney need to grow up
and watch his temper,should have been yellow carded at least,other got red for what he did
coach messed up
should have been 2-4-4
BUT the biggest blame should be with players
for all the stars in the team ,they played poor and barely won the games,played poor teams up to the clash with portugal,portugal was the best team england meet in world cup even do portugal was poor
to top it off ,1 goal in pentalies,come on
the coach played what the media asked for,and not the team that would have done better
they players themselfs let them selfs down
a swift kick is what they need
#any half ass coach with the talent england had should have done better
so all the players should have good think about it
if l was new coach,make all earn the right to play for the team,if you mess up,the get you ass on bench and think about it and figure how to get back on team
ireland has the same problem,we had the world cup and threw it waay to israel,2 blody draws,we won all the hard match early and blow the last 3
players play the biggest part in the performance
england had the players,just didnt perform,simple as that
 
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I'll give my two penneth although havent read all the thread so everythings probably been covered. but

Sven is what was wrong, his formations / motivation etc all crap his substitutions even were numb at best.

Yesterday even with roonet being sent off we could have won the game, it would have been a very brave move but if we had gone to 3 in midfield taken off lampard and brought on walcott I think we would have won the game in extra time. Portugals defenders were knackered, walcotts pace would have had them all ends up.

like i say it would have been a brave decision but if he ad of done that and we lost at least it was a last throw of the dice, instead he brings on a defender.

Hargreaves was englands best player by a country mile, he is great at what he does which is win the ball and pass it simple. Fergie get yer chequebook out.
 
Seemed like a lack of inspriration if you ask me. I have seen many sides compete for the world cup over the years and this side has inspired me the least.
Individually i felt like we had a great chance this time round as i couldn't really see an outstanding team to be scared of, especially when Argentina got knocked out. I think the whole team will regret this missed oppurtunity there whole lives and will feel like i do that they weren't even there.
Lampard struggled, Gerrard hardly touched the ball, Crouch was useless, Beckham ****, the only one player that got me going was Joe Cole with that wonder goal.
I cannot believe that on the biggest stage in the world they totally let themselves down. If they had tried then i could understand the tears at the end but to cry like girls when they haven't even competed is pathetic.
In all the world cup competitions i have personally witnessed this is THE WORST EVER.
Whats worse is on paper that was our best team for years. What a joke.
Total **** poor management from start to finish.
 
Rooney... my oh my what a blithering idiot and complete knucklehead. There is simply no excuse for getting a red card in a world cup game as crucial as that. Standing on the guys knackers was bad enough and the ref noticed it... but he didn't really react too badly until Rooney pushed Ron, and that seemes to be the final straw.

Ffs Rooney, grow up or get off the team, in that game you in large part lost us the match and thus the tournament. Twit.
 
If you have to play 4-5-1 then you have to have to fast flair players on the outside like Lennon, who can go round people, cross, cut in etc, I would have gone cole-Lampard-Gerrard-Beckham-Lennon accross midfield if I had to, but would rather of seen a 4-4-2 being played, with Crouch and Rooney up fron and Walcott later in the second half.

The sending off was a red if the ref sore the stamp, if he didnt and its for that push it is an awful decision. Ronaldo didnt make a meal of that push either, which a lot of other players would have done. I personally would like to see Fifa do something about players cross examing the referee when a decision is made, this world cup has seen far too many yellow/red cards when the ref wasnt actually going to do anything but changed their minds when players cried in their ear.

Its over 4 years to the next world cup, I see a lot of them players not being their due to age, so younger blood shall appear.
 
The post mortem begins. Make no mistake, this team had the potential to go all the way, but with Sven in charge this was never going to happen with his old school 'shut up shot' tactics after going 1-0 up, and his inability to pick the best team. Maybe he gave the public and media what they wanted with playing the best 11 players on the pitch, but it was certainly not the best team. Sven has always lacked the ruthlessness of a real top manager (such as scolari) to drop the big name players when it is beneficial to the team. Beckham didn't play well throughout, lampard was poor, and his inclusion resulted in gerrard playing the water carrier role.

Ian Wright hit the nail on the head at half time when he claimed Rooney would get frustrated and boy, was he right. A lone striker role needs to be played by an experienced, mature footballer, which certainly isn't Rooney.

The inclusion of Walcott in my eyes was purely a way of detracting the attention away from Rooney's recovery, nothing more, nothing less. He clearly didn't have any confidence in the boy.

I just cannot believe how we were still 'experimenting' with tactics in a world cup finals. Unbelievable. The downfall of this campaign was the system, and the lack of dropping the big names when it was needed. Lennon and Crouch should have started that game, instead of beckham and lampard, in a 4-4-2. Simple as.

Just to add to all this Owen Hargreaves was an absolute hero yesterday - absolutely inspirational - and had a far better world cup than fat lampard and david 'self obsessed' beckham.
 
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From an outside point of view ,on paper england have a top set of players ,but a very poor manager ,this system of 4.5.1 is hopeless for any team how can a lone striker out play a back four, what really happens is the opposistion push on there left and right backs and the middle of the park becomes over crowded the problem with this world cup is 90% of the teams are playing a defence ridden tactic more concerned not losing than going ahead and winning ,the rooney/ronaldo thing is what any decent team would do and find the man with the hottest head and work on him ,wind him up you just have to look at ronaldos face when he is sent off ,like it was mission complete , i think this was a real opportunity missed for england thru bad management and constant pressure from the press .
 
dannyjo22 said:
Interviewed this week he said england needed to stop banging it long. Today he banged it long at any opportunity.

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Well genius, you tell tell us all how Rio is supposed to play short passes when his defensive mid isnt showing for it and is consistantly marked out of the game, and your two offensive mids, and two wide players are 40 yards away?

He spent all game either playing keep ball with Terry or trying to pick out the laboured runs of the badly managed midfield, there were no other options for him.

The formation 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 relies on wingers with pace who will support the lone forward, you dont play 4-5-1 with a striker and two mids pushing on, you get shut out of the game, BECKHAM should have been dropped if we were playing a 4-5-1 and lennon played instead, cole should have brought in from the touch line and bought within passing range of Rooney.

SVEN is the reason why we are out, as i said before we started, he's took the wrong players, played the wrong system and did not employ ANY tactics what so ever.

Mclaren will be out of a job before Euro 2008.
 
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What went wrong???
Errr, where do I start?

Sven, he sucks and doesn't seem to know what he is doing.
Lennon, should have been used a lot more this world cup - everytime he played he impressed me, very quick on the ball and excellent for getting around players.
Owen - Injured and out of the world cup, which meant we had to play 4-5-1 which we are not used to.
Rooney - Playing up front on his own clearly doesn't suit him, then ofcourse he was sent off.
Beckham - He should have been replaced by Lennon earlier on.
Lampard - No idea what went wrong with him this world cup, maybe It's nerves?
Too many long balls which kept giving the ball away and losing time - why don't they do what the Argies do and keep doing short passes?

It's funny how Figo is allowed to headbutt people and only gets a yellow. Rooney accidently stands on someone's balls and gets sent off.
 
atpbx said:
Well genius, you tell tell us all how Rio is supposed to play short passes when his defensive mid isnt showing for it and is consistantly marked out of the game, and your two offensive mids, and two wide players are 40 yards away?
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The midfield ended up 40 yards away after he kept trying to find rooney with 50 yeard plus balls over the top. He clearly didnt have the confidence to play the ball to the midfield or find any of them. re watch the game, there are plenty of times a midfielder was on, but no thump. Then the ball comes right back at us.
 
Spawn said:
You are joking about the first point??:eek:
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Not even slightly.

A yellow card would have been harsh. There was no intent in that 'stamp' and I'm absolutely astounded that it is going to be looked into for further punishment rather than being overturned.
 
Gilly said:
I'm absolutely astounded that it is going to be looked into for further punishment rather than being overturned.
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I said last night as soon as it happened that will be recinded if we go through
i also said or maybe Blatter and his muppets will ban him for 3 games :mad:
 
Nickg said:
i even thjink that sven helped to get sent off in a round about way.

if he hadnt played rooney up front on his own all game and frustrated him with his crap tactis, then i doubt rooney would have reacted like that tbh
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Yes you could see he was getting frustrated with trying to win the ball with his head and sloppy passes. I'd rather he punched Sven than ronaldo. I wish Shearer was a few years younger. Rooney and shearer wouldve been perfect.
 
Gilly said:
Not even slightly.

A yellow card would have been harsh. There was no intent in that 'stamp' and I'm absolutely astounded that it is going to be looked into for further punishment rather than being overturned.
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Agreed, there was no stamp. If you take away Carvalho being there, that was the natural place where you would set your foot to recover your balance. He didn't lift his leg up and stamp it down and he was hardly gonna stand there on 1 leg until Carvalho moved from under his foot was he. At the absolute worst Rooney knew he was there and maybe put a little extra pressure on that foot when setting it, but there is no way for anybody other than Rooney to know if that's the case or not so no card should have been given.
 
Gilly said:
Not even slightly.

A yellow card would have been harsh. There was no intent in that 'stamp' and I'm absolutely astounded that it is going to be looked into for further punishment rather than being overturned.
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I dont even think calling it a stamp is fair, to me it looke like him getting up lost his balance a bit and put his foot down, hence the refree only giving a free kick. there was no intent there at all in my eyes.

The red card for the push was a joke though, yellow maybe red certainly not.

In refernec to ATBX yer correct, however as I saw hargreaves he is not the player carrick is, he is a ball winner and a simple passer of the ball, that is what he does and he did it superbly, if you want someone who isn't quite as fast, cant tackle as well or cant hassle the opposition but can play the ball from the back you pick carrick.

The problem with thour formation is that it goes one of two ways. You pay with out and out wingers who get up and support the forward at every oppurtunity hence playing Lennon and in my opinion downing.

this leaves Lampard / Gerrad / hargreaves to win the ball and play it out of the back .

alternatively you play with quite defensive wingers who can get the ball form the back or off hargreaves and play the ball to the on rushin 2 AMCS whose sole purpose is to get up and support the forward. this however leaves for a very narrow game as the wingers took in to help hargreaves while the AMCs bomb on.

the second seems to be what we were playing but it doesnt work at all. the only real way in my opinon to play 4-5-1 is with the wingers making it more a 4-3-3

there is theo other option of playing with 2 DMC's ala france allowing AMC and 2 wingers to bobmb forward but we dont have the players for that.
 
Gilly said:
Not even slightly.

A yellow card would have been harsh. There was no intent in that 'stamp' and I'm absolutely astounded that it is going to be looked into for further punishment rather than being overturned.
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As with the others, I completely agree. To call it a stamp would be frankly ridiculous, from the replays you can clearly see there was no intent whatsoever in his actions and that as a result of the Portugese player deciding to go to ground (in the process of fouling Wayne) he was unfortunate to get trodden on. A pure accident that should have resulted in a free kick to England.

Again, to send Wayne off for the push on Ronaldo? Ridiculous. I know the referees this tournament have been very power hungry and fussy, but if you look at the Argentina-Germany game you will see how the ref understood the passion involved in the game, and chose not to punish any of the pushing and shoving with any card brandishing, and instead just a talking to.

I feel so, so sorry for Wayne; for no fault of his own, he will end up as the main target of the media (and general public) criticism of why England lost the game and will unfortunately have a very hard time of it when he returns to the UK.
 
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