England: What went wrong? (serious discussion) **SPOILERS**
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Soldato
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england need to change mentality
way too negative
way too negative
Soldato
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Big Kev said:
slacker
The fact England had nothing up front to threaten Portugal, if we had a Henry, Reyes, Nistelrooy, Cisse, Crespo, Drogba. We took no attacker like these guys not even Defoe, we took utter ***** up front and it should during the whole tournament.
The FA are slowly ruining the England team, I mean in 4 years who will be in the England team, we only have Rooney and Walcott coming in through the ranks.
We need to build now take Euro 2008 as a lesson and blitz the 20100 world cup.
The south americans will only get stronger with the importing of therer players to Europe.
The FA are slowly ruining the England team, I mean in 4 years who will be in the England team, we only have Rooney and Walcott coming in through the ranks.
We need to build now take Euro 2008 as a lesson and blitz the 20100 world cup.
The south americans will only get stronger with the importing of therer players to Europe.
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vaultingSlinky said:
I do support England, they did deserve to win against Portugal I thought, but they were lucky to get that far. Its time for people to start playing a balanced on-form team, instead of players reputations or media hype. I would play Gerrard infront of Lampard any day though.
I dont understand how Gerrard was gutted, he played crap, he deserved to get knocked out, come to think of it, he was lucky to start after the 2nd England game, if Sven had any bottle he would have dropped him.
They had their chance, they blew it, they were terrible at the WorldCup, have no sympathy at all
Big Kev said:
Gettin slow m8
Where that new fella round these parts anyhow?What went wrong, hmmm:
1. Squad selection, as mentioned Walcott = wtf?, rooney & owen gambles. Bent or Defoe or both should have gone.
2. Lampard & Beckham, poor, especially Lampard. In the first games with 4 4 2, Sven should have swapped Gerrard & Lampard around given his inaccuracy. In later games Beckham & Lampard shouldn't have made it on imo, Carrick & Lennon (am serious, not being spurs bias here).
3. No support for Rooney up front, twas shocking how deep we were.
4. Sven.
5. Some very poor ref decisions in more than one game
Soldato
Cemetery said:Gettin slow m8
He's in Vegas for 10 days, not stupid is our Rotty.
Tweek_1984 said:
Yep I agree, but still I really do not see how that was a red card when Figo got away with a yellow for head butting someone in their previous game.
Rooney's seemed to be accidental in the heat of the game - he had several players on him at the time with legs everywhere and was seemingly trying for the ball, perhaps too aggressively but trying for the ball [not balls
]IMO).Figo clearly and deliberately head butted in the previous game.
TBH I think it was the Portuguese “gamesmanship” (they completely outclassed England in that) and his reaction combined with an Argentine ref (he was definitely leaning Portugal’s way with his foul decisions all game – he should have booked at least two Portuguese players for blatant diving).
Perhaps the most concrete evidence is that if someone STAMPS you in the testicles you do not get up for a wee while.
The Portuguese player in question rolled about until the red card and then “miraculously” sprang up and was fine, so he’s either a eunuch or it was an accidental misstep with no malice or real pressure involved.
Having said that Rooney shouldn’t have reacted to Ronaldo and co (although I thought FIFA has said players were to be penalised for demanding cards from refs) and if I were Ronaldo I wouldn’t be looking forward to my first training match against Rooney back at Man U.
Still at the end of the day England just weren’t good enough, Sven’s decision to not take more strikers was madness and England were pretty toothless and only really played all tournament in that last 50 mins with 10 men.
But the Portuguese diving was appalling.
http://ronaldo.ytmnd.com/
Caporegime
Cemetery said:Gettin slow m8
What went wrong, hmmm:
1. Squad selection, as mentioned Walcott = wtf?, rooney & owen gambles. Bent or Defoe or both should have gone.
2. Lampard & Beckham, poor, especially Lampard. In the first games with 4 4 2, Sven should have swapped Gerrard & Lampard around given his inaccuracy. In later games Beckham & Lampard shouldn't have made it on imo, Carrick & Lennon (am serious, not being spurs bias here).
3. No support for Rooney up front, twas shocking how deep we were.
4. Sven.
5. Some very poor ref decisions in more than one game
agreed on all points
i seriously thought that he would bring walcott on. Just so that scolari thought "wtf?". People are right to criticise sven, as one journalist said prior to the world cup, Sven didnt have a clue what he was doing, to the extent he was impressionable enough to take an unexperienced player in walcott who hasnt played a minutes premiership football. At the suggestion of Arsene Wenger of all people.
Rooney / Crouch were isolated up front. No support, and we never really troubled the defence. Same as in the ecuador game, we never looked like scoring as our one striker was allways marked by at least 2 of the opposing defence.
that combined with some dodgy refereeing and Lampard / Gerrard playing terrible
meant that we rarely looked like scoring, and when we did, we didnt have a player with any sort of finishing ability on the end of it to finish it off
Still, the defence and Hargreaves played their socks off. Who would have said a 10 man england side would have kept a clean sheet for 60 minutes against portugal after the sweeden game ?
One thing i forgot to post about earlier................
Bringing Carragher on to take a pen
There could have been no other reason for this sub right at the end of the match.Now my memory is not all that,but as a 'pool fan i can not think of one time ever that Jamie has taken a spot kick before,even as a joke
We did the same with Batty,with the same result.
Bringing Carragher on to take a pen
There could have been no other reason for this sub right at the end of the match.Now my memory is not all that,but as a 'pool fan i can not think of one time ever that Jamie has taken a spot kick before,even as a joke
We did the same with Batty,with the same result.
Soldato
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Dtab said:One thing i forgot to post about earlier................
Bringing Carragher on to take a pen
There could have been no other reason for this sub right at the end of the match.Now my memory is not all that,but as a 'pool fan i can not think of one time ever that Jamie has taken a spot kick before,even as a joke
We did the same with Batty,with the same result.
i remember him taking one. his run up started at the half way
line and he buried it.he obviously impressed in training. his first one was ace, typical really
Soldato
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ballistic said:
yeah i know that
first one was right in corner, his second one was awful
I think Sven was partly to blame for his squad selection, taking only 4 strikers, with Rooney half fit and nobodys seen Walcott play. But also the big players simply failed to perform. Beckhams crossing was terrible, Lampard did ok and Gerrard did not attack enough, the best player was Terry and that says it all.
Formation wise, lots of teams play one up front and do well, look at France, Portugal, Brazil etc. The main problem for England was the midfield, dispite the great individual players, they did not play well as a team.
Also great credit to Ricardo, he almost saved all of the penalties against him.
Formation wise, lots of teams play one up front and do well, look at France, Portugal, Brazil etc. The main problem for England was the midfield, dispite the great individual players, they did not play well as a team.
Also great credit to Ricardo, he almost saved all of the penalties against him.
Soldato
Problems imo were:
Svens inability to get the best out of the players, Gerrard & Lampard in particular these guys are quality for their clubs yet 9/10 play garbage for England (not just this tournament either Gerrards never turned it on for England)
No options up front at all, he'd got enough midfield options in the squad wtf did he need Jenas rather than taking a 5th striker and of course the Walcott decision will always be a talking point. Rooney isnt a target man especially on his own up front in a 4-5-1 and not having enough options to play 4-4-2 has cost us very dear.
Having said all that that Rooney red card was a disgrace the lad had 2 blokes tag teaming him and the ref didnt do Jack.
As for pros I'm gonna stick my hand up and say I was one of the many who always when Sven brought Hargreves on as a sub to muck the game up but the lad has been immence the 3 games he's played this tournament (he ran all day and was even dangerous attacking) and imo should be a first team regular now in that holding role.
He was also the only one with any bottle to score a penalty.
Svens inability to get the best out of the players, Gerrard & Lampard in particular these guys are quality for their clubs yet 9/10 play garbage for England (not just this tournament either Gerrards never turned it on for England)
No options up front at all, he'd got enough midfield options in the squad wtf did he need Jenas rather than taking a 5th striker and of course the Walcott decision will always be a talking point. Rooney isnt a target man especially on his own up front in a 4-5-1 and not having enough options to play 4-4-2 has cost us very dear.
Having said all that that Rooney red card was a disgrace the lad had 2 blokes tag teaming him and the ref didnt do Jack.
As for pros I'm gonna stick my hand up and say I was one of the many who always
when Sven brought Hargreves on as a sub to muck the game up but the lad has been immence the 3 games he's played this tournament (he ran all day and was even dangerous attacking) and imo should be a first team regular now in that holding role.He was also the only one with any bottle to score a penalty.
Associate
I'm Scottish and have to say over the 120 minutes England were the better team and looked threatening. They managed to create a lot more shots that troubled Ricardo than Portugal did to Robinson. The only problem is that penalties are a lottery and on the day Ricardo was the deciding factor in the shoot out with his saves.
The sending off was harsh and i would like to know exactly what the ref sent Rooney off for. Was it the stamp, which looked accidental, or his push to Ronaldo. As even though Ronaldo did rush up and stand over his player looking at the ref to act, if it wasn't for the push Rooney would probably have stayed on. Hopefully FIFA let the ref explain the sending off and the exact circumstances.
As for Sven i said at the beginning his choice of strikers would come back to haunt him and unfortunately it has. As once Owen was injured and he went 4-5-1 you did have to wonder where the goals would come from in open play.
Why did he take Walcott if he wasn't going to play him? As Defoe or even Bent would have made more sense.
Why did he insist on tactics which just don't suit the English way of playing? As 4-5-1 is not the best system for England and 4-4-2 might have worked better.
On the plus side for England, Lennon and Hargreaves at least showed a lot of promise for the future, some established players just didn't perform as they can i.e. Gerrard, Lampard, Beckham and only showed a little of what they can do in flashes.
SCM
The sending off was harsh and i would like to know exactly what the ref sent Rooney off for. Was it the stamp, which looked accidental, or his push to Ronaldo. As even though Ronaldo did rush up and stand over his player looking at the ref to act, if it wasn't for the push Rooney would probably have stayed on. Hopefully FIFA let the ref explain the sending off and the exact circumstances.
As for Sven i said at the beginning his choice of strikers would come back to haunt him and unfortunately it has. As once Owen was injured and he went 4-5-1 you did have to wonder where the goals would come from in open play.
Why did he take Walcott if he wasn't going to play him? As Defoe or even Bent would have made more sense.
Why did he insist on tactics which just don't suit the English way of playing? As 4-5-1 is not the best system for England and 4-4-2 might have worked better.
On the plus side for England, Lennon and Hargreaves at least showed a lot of promise for the future, some established players just didn't perform as they can i.e. Gerrard, Lampard, Beckham and only showed a little of what they can do in flashes.
SCM
Caporegime
Hargreves played well, Lennon played well, Rooney should'nt have gone, neither should Walcott or Owen, only good thing about Walcott is his absoutely stunning gf, he should have had a run out against Sweden as it was a nothing game, it was obvious once it came to the knockout stages he would'nt be risked as he's never played before.
Sven got it wrong, he didn't take enough forwards, decided to take crocked ones, and he's paid the price, well done Mr Burns, not sorry to see you go, shame we won't see Nancy anymore though.
At least we know how not to take a penalty, as we are absolutely dreadfull at em, next time we get to a penalty shootout do us a favour guys, just say forget it and forefeit them, just let the other team go through and save us from humiliation, we konw your gona sky them, have them saved.
Sven got it wrong, he didn't take enough forwards, decided to take crocked ones, and he's paid the price, well done Mr Burns, not sorry to see you go, shame we won't see Nancy anymore though.
At least we know how not to take a penalty, as we are absolutely dreadfull at em, next time we get to a penalty shootout do us a favour guys, just say forget it and forefeit them, just let the other team go through and save us from humiliation, we konw your gona sky them, have them saved.
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