European Grand Prix 2010, Valencia Street Circuit - Race 9/19

**** me, first thing i said whilst the car was on its way to flipping was "Webber is ****in dead!"

Really is amazing with the safety of these cars, made awesome viewing though! Good stuff!
 
NathanE said:
FFS what is DC smoking? Keeps uttering this BS about the Lotus not being allowed to race.
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Is it the same stuff your smoking or were smoking when you posted this?

NathanE said:
It is the FIA's fault for allowing A and B classes to compete in the same series. The braking points were too extremely different between those cars.
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Exactly what DC is getting at with regards to the Lotus not being able to race. Effectively being a different class. Bleating on about it being 4 seconds off the pace during the race but forgetting that it had been smacked up the rear at the start so not exactly tip top shape. Everyone knows that the new teams are slower than those at the sharp end of the grid. Its no different to any other season, there have always been teams well off the pace. Why the issue now? And as Mike kindly pointed out they are easily within 107% so hardly "B" class cars. It was a racing incident, Mark was unlucky although he was pushing his luck milking the slipstream. Can you blame him for that though?

Still! Fairly interesting race which was a surprise given the circuits fairly short history of yawn. Superb drive from Mr Kobayashi and most celebrated when he overtook Alonso, brought back memories of Sato passing him in Canada in 2007? :D I can slightly understand the Ferrari unhappiness with how long it took to sort out the SC car penalty but slightly suspicious that they didn't start investigating it until we heard the (delayed) Alonso team radio moaning about what happened. Slightly miffed that they also announced the post race investigation for exceeding the delta times after Alonso moaned some more because Hamiltons penalty didn't penalise him that much. I'm not a believer in the Ferrari International Assistance conspiracy but its not surprising people believe it. Ho hum :D
 
p0ss3s3d said:
Driver of the day = Kobayashi.

He's lapped at the pace of the leaders in a really slow car. Kept his cool under pressure. Two incredible overtakes. Good stuff.
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ruining a good race for everyone behind him - with a completely ***** ridiculous stategy

(the tyres were still fresh at the end of the race - how many other places could he have gained by stopping earlier and using his 2nd set of tyres more "evenly")

what a complete *********
 
You know, I keep thinking about things and I keep coming back to the same points..

Alonso/Ferrari are upset because it took so long for the race stewards to penalise Hamilton.

Why did they penalise hamilton? For overtaking the safety car as it came onto the track.

Were the stewards doing anything else during the time between the 'overtaking' and when they handed out the penalty..

Erm.. well..

There was this accident you see, that could have killed Mark Webber, that had to be looked at, although they could delay that until after the race

There was the overtake itself..

There were 9 cars that entered the pits before everyone else, that 'might' have been speeding..

But no, according to ferrari/alonso, there was nothing happening, the stewards were all having a nice cup of tea and a slice of cake..

Personally I think that the stewards did what they could, when they could, given the huge amount of data/incidents that they were having to look at in a short space of time.


If hamilton had dropped back behind the safety car, would he have finished second? probably not, would it have made the slightest difference to Alonso's race? not a chance in hell.

In the end, ferrari really need to stop complaining this year
 
FrankJH said:
ruining a good race for everyone behind him - with a completely ***** ridiculous stategy

(the tyres were still fresh at the end of the race - how many other places could he have gained by stopping earlier and using his 2nd set of tyres more "evenly")

what a complete *********
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:confused:

Kobayashi drove a fantastic GP and the strategy call was sublime. I'm not entirely sure you quite get it.
 
FrankJH said:
ruining a good race for everyone behind him - with a completely ***** ridiculous stategy

(the tyres were still fresh at the end of the race - how many other places could he have gained by stopping earlier and using his 2nd set of tyres more "evenly")

what a complete *********
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I don't think Sauber give two hoots about other teams races being ruined because of the strategy they ran. They are in it for themselves.
 
Pete19s said:
Is it the same stuff your smoking or were smoking when you posted this?
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No? I don't think anybody denies the Lotus Racing car is, really, a B class car at the moment. Just because of that fact doesn't mean it isn't allowed to race for position against what is known as a faster "A class" car. DC was speaking utter BS. I stand by what I said.
 
Always knew Alonso & Ferrari were a bunch of petty morons but they're taking it to a whole new level now.

If you just take a second to look at Lewis' in-car footage, it's clear that he was unsure whether or not he should pass the safety car and hesitated for a brief moment. Not only was he genuinely confused as to what to do but, had he not actually hesitated, he'd have made it passed before the line and wouldn't have incurred a penalty anyway. Would Ferrari still have protested had that happened?

Lewis finished in his rightful place and it was just luck of the draw that the safety car came out twixt him and Alonso, just as it was when the safety car divided the Peugeots & Audis at Le Mans a couple of weeks ago and everyone there was screaming about conspiracy theories.

I'm currently trying to decide who's the more pathetic, Alonso/Ferrari or the England football team.
 
NathanE said:
No? I don't think anybody denies the Lotus Racing car is, really, a B class car at the moment. Just because of that fact doesn't mean it isn't allowed to race for position against what is known as a faster "A class" car. DC was speaking utter BS. I stand by what I said.
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I don't disagree with you about DC spouting utter tripe, they have every right to race for position regardless of how much slower they are. However if there is no issue with them being able to race faster teams for position what is the issue with the FIA allowing the class "B" Lotus, Virgin & HRT to race in the same GP as the class "A" Red Bull, McLaren, Ferrari etc? Its part and parcel of the formula and always will be.
 
Pete19s said:
I don't think Sauber give two hoots about other teams races being ruined because of the strategy they ran. They are in it for themselves.
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look at what I wrote - they still had pretty FRESH tyres on, Imagine if they stopped earlier and used the FULL "freshness" up - they could have been further up the field with a better strategy (without allowing for the time they wasted holding up other cars on their old and used tyres)

Memphis said:
:confused:

Kobayashi drove a fantastic GP and the strategy call was sublime. I'm not entirely sure you quite get it.
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Look (and understand) what I wrote - I do get it completely.

Suaber did NOT optimise their race result by hindering cars behind them on 50 lap used tyres

Ceryndrion said:
If hamilton had dropped back behind the safety car, would he have finished second? probably not, would it have made the slightest difference to Alonso's race? not a chance in hell.
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Ferrari and Alonso are looking at the CHAMPIONSHIP race not the finishing places of one race - and that decision has had a HUGE effect on that

Difference between LH finishing 2nd (where he didnt really deserve given he DID get a full race pace lap in "lapping" the sc when he shouldnt have) and.....6th if he was lucky, if he didnt and tucked in behind the sc immediately

At a guess a difference of 10 points or more (compared to Alonso's 2 or 3)
 
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All 9 drivers given 5 second penalties...

Thats a new one.
Alonso up to 8th.
Buemi down to 9th
Rosberg gets 10th as de la Rosa gets dumped out of the points.
 
FrankJH said:
look at what I wrote - they still had pretty FRESH tyres on, Imagine if they stopped earlier and used the FULL "freshness" up - they could have been further up the field with a better strategy (without allowing for the time they wasted holding up other cars on their old and used tyres)
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right because pitting and getting a stream of cars overtake you when your alreayd doing faster laps than them makes sense? did you even have the live timings up? he was faster than everyone behind him for nearly the whole race where as if he pitted he would have been stuck behind slower cars
 
Pete19s said:
I don't disagree with you about DC spouting utter tripe, they have every right to race for position regardless of how much slower they are. However if there is no issue with them being able to race faster teams for position what is the issue with the FIA allowing the class "B" Lotus, Virgin & HRT to race in the same GP as the class "A" Red Bull, McLaren, Ferrari etc? Its part and parcel of the formula and always will be.
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I don't have an issue with A and B in the same series.

All I said was that, if anyone is to blame, it is the FIA for allowing A and B cars in the same series. They have the power to not allow it on safety grounds but, in recent times, financial and political pressures have overruled safety it would seem.

Who do you think is to blame then? Heikki? Webber? Or the FIA?
 
arknor said:
right because pitting and getting a stream of cars overtake you when your alreayd doing faster laps than them makes sense? did you even have the live timings up? he was faster than everyone behind him for nearly the whole race where as if he pitted he would have been stuck behind slower cars
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look at how fast Button was IMMEDIATELY he was let go - about 3 seconds faster or something, certainly fastest lap of the race of ANYONE, I guess you call that being slower LOL

As with the last race with one of the RB cars, depends on the gaps behind you (if you pit early you can squeeze into a gap that will have shrunk later on in the race)

At the end of the day he still had to do a stop, he wasnt actually racing those directly behind him anyway, he gained ***** from holding them up


edit - Im not knocking the stewards but its an interesting point.

Medical car has been dispatched (and in fact Mark was walking around out of the car all ok, car was completely off the track very near a crane - so no issue really removing it. Again totally agree they couldnt move it if Mark was trapped, but he obviously wasnt - and it was off the track and in no danger to any other car. RACE Control maybe SHOULD have looked at LH sooner - by this time the medical part of the equation is well out of the consideration surely)

Totally different if Mark isnt moving etc etc (and thank god he was) or if car was on the track - but other wise race control should be looking at stuff happening On the track surely!!
 
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