European Grand Prix 2010, Valencia Street Circuit - Race 9/19
- Thread starter Glaucus
- Start date
even though it says coming soon, it appears to up.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00sxffc/Formula_1_2010_The_European_Grand_Prix/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00sxffc/Formula_1_2010_The_European_Grand_Prix/
I agree, although this does seem to be Ferrari throwing a tantrum there does need to be clear rules which everyone knows well. There seems to be a lot of confusion on what to do when the car comes in and goes out for a lot of the drivers, Australia last year was particularly funny with Hamiltons gaffe and the safety car driver having to put his arm out the window and wave cars past as they didn't know they could overtake/were too scared of if they did the wrong thing.
Soldato
Frank, I think you have missed some crucial reasoning that seems to contradict your FACT2..
Koby started on the harder tyres, so his natural stopping point would have been towards the latter half of the race, say around 2/3's distance..
Where the strategy worked is that he was able to hold station/slightly pull away from the 'pack'.
Had he pitted earlier, he'd have the softs with limited life, and be alongside some fast cars that still had some life in their tyres, certainly you wouldn't bank on being able to get by them, considering how Button was struggling behind him..
It was an excellent strategy to stay out while he was edging away from the pack, all the time he did this, he was reducing the amount of places he'd lose without having to overtake anyone..
When he did come in at the end, everyone else tyres had done a reasonable distance, making his new softs even more of an advantage, to the point he could overtake, something you need a huge advantage to do..
So sorry, I, and all the pundits certainly don't agree with you..
Would Ferrari still be moaning about the relative points difference if Hamilton had not hesitated and legally passed the SC before the second SC line? Alonso was close to Hamilton but not that close and would still have had to hold station behind the SC and still ended up in 8th. The rules are clear regarding penalties for overtaking the SC, Hamilton broke them and served his punishment. The main questionable thing with the second SC line (at Valencia anyway) was that when the SC passed the second line it was also still within the pitlane line. Ideally I would have thought that it would be better and the end of the pitlane feed line.
Good to hear that the McLarens retain their 2-3. I can't believe the fuss the Hamilton incident has caused.
My goodness does that boy have a knack for riling up the fans! I think my favourite thing from today has either been reliant robins or Alonso hearing that Hamilton retained 2nd even with his penalty!
Oh, and I just got free tickets to the qualifying for Silverstone! KERCHING!
My goodness does that boy have a knack for riling up the fans! I think my favourite thing from today has either been reliant robins or Alonso hearing that Hamilton retained 2nd even with his penalty!
Oh, and I just got free tickets to the qualifying for Silverstone! KERCHING!
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Caporegime
Alonso has proper thrown his toys out the pram. Kobayashi deserves every point he got. Surprised to see such a good race on that track. Little else to say.
The soft tyres last a lot longer than the 4 or 5 laps he was on them for - there for my fact is true!!
You said yourself 2/3 of the way through - thats approx lap 40 (not lap 53) out of a 57 lap race, either way it was PLAINLY evident he still had a lot of decent millage in that set at the end of the race ( because he was still going fast compared to his first/second laps out of the pits)
Not only that but Im also sure that the commentary mentioned that as soon as he came out of the pits he was a great deal faster than his own previous laps (in free air) so how much time did that loose him by not coming in quicker
There is a good chance that he was only behind the Ferrari to start with (after his pitstop) BECAUSE he delayed his stop so much
Given the way he was going IF he had stopped sooner he could have got another 1 or 2 places by the end (only 3s off Kubica 2 places higher) - with MUCH fresher tyres even if he had only come in 4 /5 laps before he did (which the tyres were easily capable of today) he could easily have got past the Torro Rosso and maybe even the Renault, either way Sauber should have given him the chance to TRY at the very least
We cant possibly know - but what we DO know is that the GPS feed that all teams have would have given an incredibly accurate account of where the two cars are in relation to each other, baring in mind the FIA are ALWAYS hot on "safety" issues, it was predictable that once the SC sign was shown on all screens and flags etc that race control owould look at everything extremely closely , and something that fine was always likely to backfire whether LHs nose was mm ahead or behind the safety car
In general I think you are right - but because of the very short pitlane in Valencia I think its more 10-15s at todays race - which pans out if you check out LH's drive through
I think Martin mentioned it in commentary also
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Soldato
Jesus, just seen the GP2 crash as well.. how scarily similar 
Soldato
We have the facts (F1 Fanatic), so no need to second guess.
- At no point would he have come out in front of Alonso
- Only until lap 46+ would he have come out in front of Hulkenburg, who was still in the race.
- Once past Buemi, there was a big gap to Sutil (5-6 seconds) up until close to the end.
- Your only 3 seconds off Kubica includes his 5second penalty, which they didn't know at time, the track position had him 5.5 seconds behind Sutil, and 8-9 seconds behind Kubica on track..
I like all this fanciful 'he could have easily got past'.. he certainly wouldn't have known how much advantage he would have, he'd managed to hold Button up so easily for the majority of the race, all signs pointed at not much overtaking potential..
I'll stick with the journo's on this one, Koby did a great job, I think the facts back it up quite well, without knowing about Hulkenburg's retirement etc
Just face it, your miffed because he held up Button, who I'm guessing you can come up with lots of theories about how he'd have possibly won the race had the evil Kobayashi not kept him at bay
I love all the armchair warriors who seem to think they would be better in charge of the team or driving the car than the person that actually does it. Just for a day it'd be nice to see one of them at the wheel or in charge of the team to show them that its not as easy as they think. Same across all sports and all forms of media though so nothing new. Just a shame a few more forums dont have an ignore button.
Looking forward to the Mclaren updates in Silverstone and hopefully a strong showing. Always nice to see Ferrari complaining, it always means they are losing.
Looking forward to the Mclaren updates in Silverstone and hopefully a strong showing. Always nice to see Ferrari complaining, it always means they are losing.
ignore sutil completely why dont you (less than a second infront on much more heaviily used tyres) - and you said yourself that he got past Alonso because of new tyres , no reason at all why given a few more laps he could have got past Sutil (a much worse driver in a much worse car than Alonso) for the same reason
With or without pressurising Kubika
Thats an extra two points which every midfield team would kill for at any point in the season
You have also clearly ignored the fact that the tyres were still being used optimally (because of his last few lap times were seemingly a lot faster than those around him, even while in traffic/overtaking)
Given the short pitlane even lap times prove that stopping about 4 or 5 laps previously would have given Koby a better chance of getting past Alonso - and yes its entirely possible he could have come out ahead of him from the pitlane from going through that phase of the race on the f1fanatic race chart
from their timings it looks like Koby lost 15s on his outlap from the pits - IF he had done this on lap 50 instead he could have theoretically been out 3s AHEAD of Alonso (with the pitstop going as well as it did of course)
Looks like Im upsetting some by having an opinion - which seems to stack up given the figures from f1fanatic, if Ive missed something then fair enough, just dont believe I have - still think Sauber where in it for the airtime yesterday
At NO time have I said JB was capable of winning the race - but given his closing speed on LH and SV at the end he could have made a much closer battle for 1st / 2nd/ 3rd which is what we are ALL after I suspect
Its called having an opinion - a lot of people do it every race whehter its talking about the FIA or a particular team
With or without pressurising Kubika
Thats an extra two points which every midfield team would kill for at any point in the season
You have also clearly ignored the fact that the tyres were still being used optimally (because of his last few lap times were seemingly a lot faster than those around him, even while in traffic/overtaking)
Given the short pitlane even lap times prove that stopping about 4 or 5 laps previously would have given Koby a better chance of getting past Alonso - and yes its entirely possible he could have come out ahead of him from the pitlane from going through that phase of the race on the f1fanatic race chart
from their timings it looks like Koby lost 15s on his outlap from the pits - IF he had done this on lap 50 instead he could have theoretically been out 3s AHEAD of Alonso (with the pitstop going as well as it did of course)
Looks like Im upsetting some by having an opinion - which seems to stack up given the figures from f1fanatic, if Ive missed something then fair enough, just dont believe I have - still think Sauber where in it for the airtime yesterday
At NO time have I said JB was capable of winning the race - but given his closing speed on LH and SV at the end he could have made a much closer battle for 1st / 2nd/ 3rd which is what we are ALL after I suspect
Its called having an opinion - a lot of people do it every race whehter its talking about the FIA or a particular team
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well why mercedes were messing up schumachers pitstop i was replying on forums exactly as it happened asking WTF they were doing. it was so obvious at that point in time with hard tyres that during practice and qually matched the softs for lap times he would have been better to stay out and do another 30+ laps
even so, that doesn't correlate with 5 seconds.
Can't believe everyone keeps commenting about Hamilton. He broke the rule and got a drive through. If he didn't hesitate he would have not broken any rules.
However
the 9 cars did brake the rules, then FIA made 2 mistakes.
1) why was it investigated after the race, absolutely no need for this. They did not need to check the cars or anything, it did not happen in the last few laps.
2) the punishment should be the same as in the race.
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Man of Honour
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2004
- Posts
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He was really ****ing me off this weekend. He goes on and on about boring crap e.g. something about Hamilton's engineer being away or something to that effect - meanwhile he misses everything on the track. I also hate that he interupts Brundle all the time.
Yeah, I noticed that too. Brundle was trying to say something about Rosberg, and Legard interrupted to remind us all it was Rosberg's birthday. Fantastic, Legard, but I'm more interested in what's going on on the track, ta v much.
someone needs to tell him about live timing because he doesnt use it he always says XXX is going faster than XXX and 99% of the time hes dead wrong hes braindead
Soldato
I liked it when he said "almost quarter of a second faster" when the actual figure on screen was "+0.270" or something, which is of course over 1/4 of a second.