European Grand Prix 2010, Valencia Street Circuit - Race 9/19

PinkFloyd said:
What? Watch it again! He very clearly moves to the left very quick when Webber was very close and Webber stupidly follows him and causes the incident.

Fantastic lack of judgement on Webbers part just like with the Hamilton incident in Australia!
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To be fair, Heikki also said he was braking. Since its a right hander coming up he would head to the left to gain the best corner speed and so pulled left and slammed on the anchors.

It's still Webbers fault, but Heikki wasn't letting him through, just trying to make the best line through the corner.
 
realscot - what we need are tyre compounds that give you the option to go the whole race at one speed, or need changing once at a slightly higher speed, or need changing multiple times at a higher speed still. No crappy rules about having to use all available compounds, none of this 'must start the race on the compound you qualified on' for the top 10 on the grid....

PinkFloyd - yeah, that. If that was on the public roads, it would be Webber who lost his NCB ;)

I like Mark a lot, but he needs to man up and admit that he screwed both his own race and that of Heikki all by himself.
 
realscot said:
We don't want tyres that last so damned long!! What we really need is tyres that go off much more quickly if you push them too hard.
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And if you had this we would have the same absolutely boring ridiculous race we had at the start of the season where everyone was getting told to slow down and save the tyres. No thanks!
 
PinkFloyd said:
What? Watch it again! He very clearly moves to the left very quick when Webber was very close and Webber stupidly follows him and causes the incident.

Fantastic lack of judgement on Webbers part just like with the Hamilton incident in Australia!
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Regardless, the point I was really trying to make was the fact Kovalainen was not getting out the way and was blocking Weber. Perfectly within his rights to do that but when you got a car so much faster behind you was it really worth it?
 
Todge said:
like when they all were wearing out in Canada? oh no wait...
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So you want cars to hold position all race and try and overtake in the pitstops then? I'd rather have cars able to race on the track and not be held back with tyre wear and fuel restrictions.
 
xen_ said:
Although it is looking good for Hamilton, I think it's too soon to say it's in the bag. McLaren are still just behind Redbull on qualifying and I'm sure Redbull are developing quickly too.
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McLaren are also behind on race pace, too.

The only reason McLaren were able to get those 1-2 in the previous races was due to RBR unreliability, crashes, bad strategies.

On pure pace alone, on an identical strategy, with no silly crashes, due to team orders, RBR will beat all cars.

What McLaren have going for them is their ability to slowly improve the car (ie. no big update, which can create more problems than it solves). They also have the best driver pairing this year, which helps.

A lot of people keep discounting Ferrari, but my gut feeling is that Alonso will finish top 2 this year. Last week saw Ferrari's big update which put them at a little bit of a disadvantge, due to them having to test the car in race conditions. At Silverstone, they will have a better idea on how the "new" car handles and will have a better idea on how to get the most out of it. They have also stated that from here on in, they will be upgrading their car incrementally (similar to how McLaren do things), which will help them a lot. I believe Ferrari are going to be very strong at Silverstone, onwards.
 
I disagree sunama. McLaren's race pace is second to none. Once the fuel starts burning off toward the later phase of the race the McLaren's always seem to come alive. It's a pattern that's pretty much been repeated all year.

It was a real shame that Hamilton got that penalty because I really think he would have found a way past Vettel.
 
JRS said:
So, which is it guys? Are the FIA out there to help Ferrari or hinder them?
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The FIA are there to assist Ferrari in any way possible. What part of this haven't you understood? :p

As yet, they haven't done anything this season which would hinder Ferrari. They have so far assisted Ferrari with a place at Monaco.

We might also say that by adding 5 seconds to some drivers' race times, they have also assisted Alonso in gaining a place, in Valencia. ;)
 
NathanE said:
It was a real shame that Hamilton got that penalty because I really think he would have found a way past Vettel.
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Once Hamilton had his penalty, Vettel dropped his pace. A lot of people felt that had the penalty not happened, Hamilton would be all over Vettel.

However, as Hamilton moved closer to Vettel, Vettel started putting in some fast laps, which shows that if he had wanted to, he could've gone much faster.

Also, bear in mind, at Valencia, although Button was much faster than Kobayashi and Alonso was much faster than Buemi, neither of these (much faster) cars could get past the slower cars. Based on this, its fair to conclude that in order to overtake the car in front, the car behind must be massively faster OR the can in front must make a mistake.

I'm still confident that Red Bull have the fastest car. There is no evidence so far this year, to suggest that in dry conditions, with no incidents, the McLaren has been faster in a race.

RBR's weakest showing was probably in Canada, though even that was because they used a bad strategy and Vettel had a problem with his car.
 
sunama said:
However, as Hamilton moved closer to Vettel, Vettel started putting in some fast laps, which shows that if he had wanted to, he could've gone much faster.
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As any driver would do. Hamilton wouldn't have been able to overtake on speed alone as he wasn't over a second a lap quicker, but with no pressure on Vettel he could afford to take it easy. If Hamilton had not gotten the penalty he would have been tailing Vettel all the way perhaps forcing him into a mistake or even making one himself.

I have seen nothing this year that suggests that RBR can win every remaining race or even get both cars finishing every race. They are unreliable and the drivers are making mistakes. Even if RBR are 1-2 in the race anyone behind them must know there is a half decent chance of one or both of them not making it to the end.
 
Drukk said:
I'd rather have cars able to race on the track and not be held back with tyre wear and fuel restrictions.
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Then you need to change something else. In their current form, the top cars have such a short braking distance that its difficult to out brake anyone. They also produce a horrendous wake meaning you stay close enough in high speed corners to make a move.

To make more overtaking something HAS to change. We saw in the Canadian GP that tyres not lasting helped make a great race becuase people were on different tyres at different times. Bridgestone have already said they are going to try and do the same after the British GP.

Cars must be able to overtake in the race, but pitstops are a massive part of motorsport and shouldnt be dismissed as part of the entertainment.
 
Todge said:
I have seen nothing this year that suggests that RBR can win every remaining race or even get both cars finishing every race.
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Of course.

But then I don't think any car would be capable of achieving the above and that includes the all conquering Williams from 1992/3 and the 1988 McLaren.

RBR still have the fastest car, though...and bearing this in mind, I would much rather be in a RBR than any other car on the grid.

Before the race, everybody seemed to believe that RBR were dead and buried. I was one of the few that said that RBR still have the fastest car on the track and as such must start out as favourites for pole position and a race win...which is exactly what happened. I have no doubt that RBR will maintain their "fastest car" tag, at Silverstone and as such, once again (barring rain/extraordinary incidents), must start out as favourites for pole position and a race win.
 
A team should have the choice which compound to use so that using harder tyres means 2 pitstops and using a softer compound means 3 pitstops but the ability to run faster.

Tyre compounds need to be way softer but this isn't going to happen as long as there is just one supplier, I still remember Ferrari doing a 5 stopper at Magny Cours years ago.
 
what you need is a tyre war, where longevity is sacrificed for all out speed.
FIA also need to stop creating artificial racing. two tye compound, movable rear wing etc. Although some of that fault is FOTAS as well.
 
sunama said:
Of course.

But then I don't think any car would be capable of achieving the above and that includes the all conquering Williams from 1992/3 and the 1988 McLaren.

RBR still have the fastest car, though...and bearing this in mind, I would much rather be in a RBR than any other car on the grid.

Before the race, everybody seemed to believe that RBR were dead and buried. I was one of the few that said that RBR still have the fastest car on the track and as such must start out as favourites for pole position and a race win...which is exactly what happened. I have no doubt that RBR will maintain their "fastest car" tag, at Silverstone and as such, once again (barring rain/extraordinary incidents), must start out as favourites for pole position and a race win.
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I've got a hunch the McLaren is going to be fast out of the box at Silverstone. I can't imagine them ****ing up their blown diffuser concept like Ferrari seem to have. McLaren are just too on-form at the moment.
 
sunama said:
Of course.

But then I don't think any car would be capable of achieving the above and that includes the all conquering Williams from 1992/3 and the 1988 McLaren.

RBR still have the fastest car, though...and bearing this in mind, I would much rather be in a RBR than any other car on the grid.

Before the race, everybody seemed to believe that RBR were dead and buried. I was one of the few that said that RBR still have the fastest car on the track and as such must start out as favourites for pole position and a race win...which is exactly what happened. I have no doubt that RBR will maintain their "fastest car" tag, at Silverstone and as such, once again (barring rain/extraordinary incidents), must start out as favourites for pole position and a race win.
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I'd agree that at the moment they are favorites, but until we see McLarens new exhaust its not definitive. Mclarens straight line speed is undoubtedly faster than anyone else, if they can solve high speed corners with the new exhaust too then they'll be formidable becuase the reliability is there.

At the end of the day the table will tell all at the end of the year. Despite having quite clearly the best car for 9 races RBR are 2nd in the constructors and 3rd and 4th in the drivers. Last year Brawn had the best car and made it count. They tailed off at the end of the year but they had enough points in the bag to win the championship. Realistically RBR should have taken far more points than they have. Driver errors, strategy mistakes and unreliability have caused them to be behind despite catching McLaren and Ferrari napping at the start of the season. It'll cost them dear imo.
 
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Silverstone could be odd, half the track is new and half of the mclaren will be new so who knows how it will all plan out.

I think the biggest threat to mclaren is a whiney prima-dona spaniard trying to ram hamilton off the track and the typical poor race-craft of the red bull duo making overtaking dangerous.
 
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