European Grand Prix 2010, Valencia Street Circuit - Race 9/19

AcidHell2 said:
what you need is a tyre war, where longevity is sacrificed for all out speed.
Click to expand...
The problem is that doing that won't help at the moment because overtaking is too difficult. Longevity (and thus track position) will always trump speed. Koby's overtakes yesterday were an anomaly, you wouldn't ordinarily see a car on fresh softs that only have to last for 5 laps against people on hards that are almost 30 laps old.

FIA also need to stop creating artificial racing. two tire compound, movable rear wing etc. Although some of that fault is FOTAS as well.
Click to expand...
I do agree with this though. Tires are part of the solution, but they aren't the whole of it.
 
Baboonanza said:
The problem is that doing that won't help at the moment because overtaking is too difficult. Longevity (and thus track position) will always trump speed. Koby's overtakes yesterday were an anomaly, you wouldn't ordinarily see a car on fresh softs that only have to last for 5 laps against people on hards that are almost 30 laps old.
Click to expand...

no double diffuser next year, should significantly lower the air distubance.

Also just solve the problem, less reliance and development on aero dynamics and more development in engines and other mechanics. which also serves the "green" image F1 is trying to push and help kers. Now we have no refuelling. The FIA should be limiting fuel and opening up development.
 
NathanE said:

Another airborne formula car...
Click to expand...

He was so so so lucky to not hit the bridge. I would love to see an outside shot of that as he was clearly close to it where he landed behind the armco.


deuse said:
"Alonso: Glass bottle on the track showed fans' 'disgust'"

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/161123/1/alonso_glass_bottle_on_the_track_showed_fans_disgust.html

A new low by Moanalonso..
Click to expand...


Fans disgust, more like a marshals given that it was pointed out there is very little in the way of spectators in that area. Would have done fairly well to lob it from a stand ,over the catch fence and land in one piece.
 
NathanE said:
I've got a hunch the McLaren is going to be fast out of the box at Silverstone. I can't imagine them ****ing up their blown diffuser concept like Ferrari seem to have. McLaren are just too on-form at the moment.
Click to expand...

Its not really a case of messing up their upgrade. Its just a case of understanding it and getting the best out of the new characteristics of the car.

Ferrari are basically 1 race ahead on the revised rear end, which is why I expect them to be on the pace at Sliverstone, having tested the new car in the prevous race (Valencia).

If you notice, throughout this season, whenever a team promises a new "big upgrade", their race result is poor. However, if you look at the very next race, they are VERY strong.

Normally, what would happen is a team would make a new part and test it on track, before the race. If the new part works, they would then bring it to the race and use it in anger. The benefits would be immediate. What we are seeing now is that a team makes a new part. They wait for the race weekend. They try it out on practise days and most of the time they abandon it, for it to be used at a later date, once the test results can be analysed.

To make a major change, to fit it on a car, then to use it in the race and for that new part to work immediately, is asking far too much. This is why, McLaren's strategy of making small upgrades every race, is proving so good, because the car's handling is not changing significantly from race to race. The changes are gradual, meaning that drivers/team/engineers can easily adapt to the change. This coming weekend though, McLaren will be deviating from that strategy.

Incidentally, Ferrari have said that they are now going to adopt McLaren's approach of small incremental upgrades rather than big updates.

From what I understand, Mercedes are the team who seem to be involved heavily in major upgrades every race and look at how badly they seem to suffer, every time they make the big change.
 
dalin80 said:
Getting ahead in both championships during a period of time that the red bulls were obviously far faster is a hefty achievement.
Click to expand...

McLaren have the best drivers.

You can either invest heavily in the car or just go out and hire the reigning world champion and the world champion, the year before.

I remember Whitmarsh stated on TV that his policy was to hire the best drivers in the world. At the time I didnt take him seriously, given that McLaren had let Alonso go. However, after McLaren hired Button - an unexpected and audacious move - Whitmarsh is someone you have to take seriously.

In his old age, Ron Denis was too interested in playing happy families and doing what he could to make Hamilton happy. As a result Alonso was forced out. In 1992, I remember Senna went on TV and publicly stated that he wished to join Williams, and would drive for them for free. He was desperate to leave McLaren and join Williams. Dennis new Senna was the best and as such did what he could to ensure Senna stayed at McLaren for 1993. This is in stark contrast to how he dealt with Alonso.
 
Alonso is just frustrated. He is watching who he believes, is his main contender - Hamilton - open up a gap in the title race and is directing all his misfortune on Hamilton and the FIA.

Alonso has always been a bit of a moaner and whiner. I remember during the title winning years, he was moaning, publicly about his team's lack of support for his title challenge. Its part of his personality.

I'd still love to see him in the same team as Hamilton...the fireworks would be unbelievable.
 
sunama said:
Its not really a case of messing up their upgrade. Its just a case of understanding it and getting the best out of the new characteristics of the car.
Click to expand...
I don't think understanding more downforce is all that difficult. If that really is the case then Ferrari are in trouble. They can optimise their suspension settings for it on computers after the wind tunnel has given them some downforce figures to work with.

McLaren made a big point of doing a lot of analytical testing in the pre-season. They were mounting weird and wonderful sensor structures to their car. They're the only team that take the "science" of it all this far. I think it is paying them huge dividends and is one of the secrets that is allowing them to develop the car so well through the season.

Personally I think Ferrari just messed up the actual implementation of the blown diffuser concept. Their wind tunnel has clearly given a different picture than what they saw on the track in Valencia.
 
sunama said:
Alonso is just frustrated. He is watching who he believes, is his main contender - Hamilton - open up a gap in the title race and is directing all his misfortune on Hamilton and the FIA.

Alonso has always been a bit of a moaner and whiner. I remember during the title winning years, he was moaning, publicly about his team's lack of support for his title challenge. Its part of his personality.

I'd still love to see him in the same team as Hamilton...the fireworks would be unbelievable.
Click to expand...

We have. Alonso ran out of toys in his pram.

Certainly when it comes to mental strength at the moment Alonso is losing badly.
 
NathanE said:
I don't think understanding more downforce is all that difficult. If that really is the case then Ferrari are in trouble. They can optimise their suspension settings for it on computers after the wind tunnel has given them some downforce figures to work with.

McLaren made a big point of doing a lot of analytical testing in the pre-season. They were mounting weird and wonderful sensor structures to their car. They're the only team that take the "science" of it all this far. I think it is paying them huge dividends and is one of the secrets that is allowing them to develop the car so well through the season.

Personally I think Ferrari just messed up the actual implementation of the blown diffuser concept. Their wind tunnel has clearly given a different picture than what they saw on the track in Valencia.
Click to expand...

Mercedes certainly got theirs wrong to an extent. They burnt rear bodywork during Friday testing and had to race with a modified and much less efficient unit.

McLaren probably wisely didn't rush theirs in as Valencia wasn't a track where the blown diffuser would be significant (unlike Silverstone) and didn't want to risk reliability against a top order finish.
 
NathanE said:
I don't think understanding more downforce is all that difficult. If that really is the case then Ferrari are in trouble. They can optimise their suspension settings for it on computers after the wind tunnel has given them some downforce figures to work with.
Click to expand...

Its not as simple as working with extra downforce. Major changes have a habit of changing the balance and the way in which the car actually behaves in corners. It also changes the way the car needs to be setup. A major change will mean that the setups which worked in previous races will not be optimal for future races, with the new car. This means that it takes a little time (at least 1 race), to understand how best to set the car up for optimal performance. Ferrari haven't messed up at all - all they need is some actual test data to work with. After Valencia, they have this. For this reason, they will be able to set the car up better and will finally be able to take advantage of the new and improved Ferrari. Expect them to get stronger over the next few races.

McLaren on the other hand tend to stay away from major upgrades, which means that from race to race, the car handles very similar to the manner in which it handled in the previous race. This allows the McLaren engineers to have a good starting point, with regards to setup, on the Friday. They can then quickly dial in the optimal setup by Sunday.

Silverstone should see McLaren suffer in a similar fashion to Ferrari and Mercedes (who both brought major upgrades to Valencia), as this is when they will also be bringing in a major upgrade and will have to learn how to set their new car up. The real question is just how will the new upgrade effect the balance of the car. If the balance is unchanged, McLaren will dominate at Silverstone. The chances of a new car/major upgrade performing immediately, straight of the box, with no testing, is low...but not impossible.

NathanE said:
Personally I think Ferrari just messed up the actual implementation of the blown diffuser concept. Their wind tunnel has clearly given a different picture than what they saw on the track in Valencia.
Click to expand...

Computer simulations are never a substitute for actual real world testing. The lack of testing is definitely making it difficult for big teams to bring in a fully verified package to races, which means that teams are having to risk running an untested package in races. Minor upgrades present minimal risks. Major upgraes however could change the handling of the car so massively that when they race with it for the time, they simply aren't able to dial in the optimal setup during the first race weekend (with that new package). Mecedes/Ferrari suffered this problem at Valencia. RBR suffered this problem when they last introduced their new package. Mercedes suffered from this when they brought their new package to Spain. Many teams who have tested their F-Duct have decided against using it during the race, simply because they havent had enough time to test it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom