Poll: Exit Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Results discussion and OcUK Exit Poll - Closing 8th July

[FoxEye]

How "nice", but as the years pile on this idealistic view so many of us had in our youth will be bushwhacked by one or more of these realities. Marriage, bosses, work colleagues, work competitors, customers, neighbours, officialdom or just the plain old vicissitudes of life's cold realities. I'd love you to read your own post here in 30 years time and know what you thought of it then..... Humans are tribal, and you are best remembering that, and how tribalism works.

There's no guarantee we can continue as we are for another 30 years.

We may well need a radical change of direction just to last that long.

For example, inequality cannot increase at current trends for another 30 years. Something has got to give.

 

[Rroff]

Nonsense.

Not at all.

Corbyn with the backing of hard-left activists is doing it straight from the Marxist playbook - playing the waiting game building (cleansing) the party until a peak of anti-capitalist sentiment and then plying on the nationalisation, tax and price control, etc. angles saying exactly what people want to believe at the right moment using guile and careful wording to present what seems to make sense, what seems to be fair and intelligently considered and people are swallowing it hook, line and sinker.

Rewind a bit before the sales pitch once that moment arrived and listen to what Corbyn was actually saying, what he actually wants.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Not at all.

Corbyn with the backing of hard-left activists is doing it straight from the Marxist playbook - playing the waiting game building (cleansing) the party until a peak of anti-capitalist sentiment and then plying on the nationalisation, tax and price control, etc. angles saying exactly what people want to believe at the right moment using guile and careful wording to present what seems to make sense, what seems to be fair and intelligently considered and people are swallowing it hook, line and sinker.

Rewind a bit before the sales pitch once that moment arrived and listen to what Corbyn was actually saying, what he actually wants.

I still don't see where the punishment for the successful and fortunate comes in?

 

[Tefal]

There's no guarantee we can continue as we are for another 30 years.

We may well need a radical change of direction just to last that long.

For example, inequality cannot increase at current trends for another 30 years. Something has got to give.

out of curiosity why?


how does it affect you if the richest people in this country have 20 million or 20 billion?

 

[Deleted member 66701]

out of curiosity why?


how does it affect you if the richest people in this country have 20 million or 20 billion?

Because trickle down economics is a lie:-

 

[Angilion]

How patronising and condescending do you want to be ??
Sorry to break it too you fella but the youth of today are more intelligent and informed than the youth of yesterday, but will not be as informed / intelligent than the youth of tomorrow . It's called evolution!

Only by people who don't know what evolution is. Your claim that the average level of intelligence in humans can evolve to a higher level in one generation is simply wrong. Evolution doesn't work that way. It can't work that way. You are at best making a false appeal to authority.

More informed...potentially. There is also the potential to be even more engrained into an even narrower viewpoint. Facebook, Twitter and Google all deliberately try to feed people only viewpoints they agree with and have considerable success in doing so. That's an even worse position than newspaper and TV news, since TV news traditionally at least made an attempt at being unbiased.

If you really want to base voting age on evolution, you'd have to call for it to be increased to at least 21 since evolution has resulted in humans usually not fully developing their rational decision-making abilities until at least early 20s and more usually mid or even late 20s. That's the biology of humans. That's evolution.

There might be a reasonable case to be made for reducing the voting age to 16, but a false appeal to authority, ageism and blatantly false statements about biology aren't it.

While some of the best people in the political sphere for handling something like Brexit couldn't be further removed from any involvement LOL.

I was thinking today about people who would be worse at negotiating Brexit than Theresa May. I thought of one - Gordon Ramsey.

 

[Rroff]

Because trickle down economics is a lie:-

Truth is somewhere between those two until you get to the extremes of those at the top gaining full control over capitalism and even then it generally doesn't dry up entirely the image is as much a lie as the lie it is trying to debunk.

I still don't see where the punishment for the successful and fortunate comes in?

Look at the policies in the light of the things Corbyn has always stood for rather than the acceptable vision being projected at the moment :s

 

[Tefal]

Because trickle down economics is a lie:-

doesn't really answer anything.

i mean if those people weren't going to get that 20 billion they aren't going o give to themselves to be taxed away are they?

it would just stay the "company's" money as part of an ltd?

as would be required by the company bylaws.

you're gonna still have the same amount of money at the end.

 

[Trusty]

Because trickle down economics is a lie:-

Hardly a lie, is it?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...rners-pay-more-tax-than-bottom-9-million.html

:/

Why is that the people who are the most efficient wealth creators pay more and more all the time.

Why shouldn't we just have one tax bracket?

 

[Deleted member 66701]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...rners-pay-more-tax-than-bottom-9-million.html

:/

And?

I'm sure the bottom 9 million would love to be able to pay more tax.

 

[Trusty]

And?

I'm sure the bottom 9 million would love to be able to pay more tax.

Why can't they pay more tax?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...y-has-trebled-since-1970s-telegraph-analysis/

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Why can't they pay more tax?

Because they don't control of the means of production.

 

[Trusty]

Because they don't control of the means of production.

Why can't they control the means of production?
Could they not set up a company?

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Why can't they control the means of production?

Now that's the right question.

 

[Tefal]

Why can't they control the means of production?

because its a concept outdated by about 40 years.

no one person or evena group of workers can control the means of production when the means can cost billions to set up.

that requires thousands/millions of investors

 

[Rroff]

because its a concept outdated by about 40 years.

no one person or evena group of workers can control the means of production when the means can cost billions to set up.

that requires thousands/millions of investors

9 times out of 10 those griping about it though are people who would rather blame others for their failures rather than take responsibility where they have had opportunity and blew it or see others doing well and think it should be handed to them on a plate.

On the flipside though we should always be wary of those at the top using their position to an advantage over those who come after them but you don't need to go all the way to the left to solve that.

On a different note I thought this headline rather amusing even if it was from what is essentially a parody article:

“Gosh, the DUP seem horrible!”, gasp people who voted for poverty, corruption & NHS cuts

 

[Trusty]

Now that's the right question.

No, it's not. Why didn't you highlight the part where i asked - why can't they set up a company?

because its a concept outdated by about 40 years.

no one person or evena group of workers can control the means of production when the means can cost billions to set up.

that requires thousands/millions of investors

You're not making any sense, do you think every business costs billions to set up? Why use huge corporations as the example? these large companies didn't start off like that. Amazon started off as online book shop, did Bill gates have billions to start with?
Whats stopping someone using a £1000 bank loan and creating a company themselves?

Doesn't matter how much people spin it, not everyone is born equal, there are some people who just aren't going to be CEO of a multi billion pound company, they aren't going to be that superstar sportsman or superstar musician. There's a hierarchy at a biological level, and that plays out economically & socially.

 

[Tefal]

You're not making any sense, do you think every business costs billions to set up? Why use huge corporations as the example?

because they make up the majority of the labor market.

or are you thinking corner shops, and one horse shows make up the majority?

a person with 1 k can pay less than 100 hours


and that's just min wage not including workplace pensions, ni employer contributions etc

1000 quid couldn't keep you open a business day.

that's why i dont include them.

why do you include insane impossibilities?

Doesn't matter how much people spin it, not everyone is born equal, there are some people who just aren't going to be CEO of a multi billion pound company, they aren't going to be that superstar sportsman or superstar musician. There's a hierarchy at a biological level, and that plays out economically & socially.

thats kinda the point of right wing politics...

 

[Trusty]

because they make up the majority of the labor market.

or are you thinking corner shops, and one horse shows make up the majority?

a person with 1 k can pay less than 100 hours


and that's just min wage not including workplace pensions, ni employer contributions etc

1000 quid couldn't keep you open a business day.

that's why i dont include them.

why do you include insane impossibilities?

I don't get what your point is, why not take that 1k and turn it into 5k for the same amount of work? well, probably won't be the same amount of work, as a business owner, it's all on you, no one else shoulders the responsibility but the wealth creation is higher if youre good at your job. The backbone of the UK economy is small business, not large business. So how am i using an insane example exactly?

thats kinda the point of right wing politics...

Hardly right wing, it's a fact.

 

[Tefal]

I don't get what your point is, why not take that 1k and turn it into 5k for the same amount of work? well, probably won't be the same amount of work, as a business owner, it's all on you, no one else shoulders the responsibility but the wealth creation is higher if youre good at your job. The backbone of the UK economy is small business, not large business. So how am i using an insane example exactly?

because you cant buy any realistic means of production for 1k ?


i mean how much does a basic cnc machine cost?

or a hydraulic press?

or a box folder and a guillotine and rivet gun?

a single high end pc for workstation work?

seriously what are you going to spend you 1k on?

with min wage, pension, insurance etcm, wht are you getting for your 1k? 5 hours work?

i mean how many people are you going to employ?