Poll: Exit Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Results discussion and OcUK Exit Poll - Closing 8th July

[thenewoc]

We've done this several times. More or less every voter votes for what benefits themselves and their family. The grey vote have been bought by the Tories since always.

Again though you are suggesting people voted on one aspect of the labour manifesto when it's unlikely that was the case.

I would think many of the younger voters came out this time due to tuition fee bribery rather than brexit. As for the older voter they were more likely turned away from the Tories this time due to the assault on winter fuel payments and the dementia tax.

 

[Nate--IRL--]

I think hard brexit is meant to represent leaving the single market. AFAIK the Tory and Labour manifestos wanted freedom of movement (FoM) to cease and were led to believe by the EU that we can't have access to the single market without the latter but we haven't got down to negotiating yet so whether they are prepared to move on that stand point is anyones guess atm, I would be surprised if they would though so in effect we have no choice other than a hard brexit by default with regards to FoM.

No, the UK is leaving the single market, whether it rejoins almost immediately on the back of the negotiations is up for debate, but the UK is definitely leaving when A50 concludes.

Nate

 

[Vonhelmet]

blah

Fascism is an authoritarian position, so inherently illiberal. Liberal fascism makes for a great oxymoronic soundbitey phrase, but that doesn't mean it holds any water.

 

[Nitefly]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2009/02/liberals-are-the-true-heirs-of-the-nazi-spirit/
http://www.salon.com/2014/04/14/liberal_fascism_is_everywhere_behold_its_shocking_rise/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ascists--leaders-aim-save-controlling-do.html

Thanks for the links. I'm not really sure how that applies to this country though. I'm also not sure why people being politically held to account for doing crappy things is bad. The way some of these articles, and your later quote, over-generalise being 'liberal' with 'being aggressive' is a bit lol.

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

With age comes conservatism.

Liberal facisism has taken control of western society, the mess is down to that.

What utter dribble

Guess what, some of the most prosperous and happy society's on the planet are socialist / liberal !

The people of Denmark, Sweden, Norway think you are talking utter nonsense!!

 

[delta0]

May passes 1922 committee so she is safe for now. Now there will be a deal between Conservatives and Labour on Brexit. Soft Brexit. Basically Norway style or EEA. I'm sure they will ask for some concession on free movement but they will only make head room on this if it is aligned with what Germany/France want to do also. It won't be highly restrictive. At least this position on the edge of the EU will allow a lot more freedom to seek deals outside EU. It just removes our voting power in the EU but tbh unless you are in the Euro you are going to be pushed away from the closer union anyway.

 

[StriderX]

I would think many of the younger voters came out this time due to tuition fee bribery rather than brexit. As for the older voter they were more likely turned away from the Tories this time due to the assault on winter fuel payments and the dementia tax.

What Bribery?

They used to get it a >20 years ago, yet still mostly people who graduated at that time still voted mostly labour. Hmm.

 

[Tunney]

Liberal facisism has taken control of western society, the mess is down to that.

Yep, definitely it's definitely immigrants the young liberal facisism that's to blame for the current mess. Definitely not the people who voted Conservative in recent elections.

 

[LabR@t]

Thanks for the links. I'm not really sure how that applies to this country though. I'm also not sure why people being politically held to account for doing crappy things is bad. The way some of these articles, and your later quote, over-generalise being 'liberal' with 'being aggressive' is a bit lol.

See what I mean.

 

[Vonhelmet]

I would think many of the younger voters came out this time due to tuition fee bribery rather than brexit. As for the older voter they were more likely turned away from the Tories this time due to the assault on winter fuel payments and the dementia tax.

I'm going to repeat myself. Is it inconceivable to you that people don't want to see the country destroyed by the tories? The NHS alone is a huge issue.

 

[Nitefly]

See what I mean.

No

 

[thenewoc]

It really is inconceivable to you that people don't want to see the country bought and sold by the tories, isn't it?

Opposed to sold down the river, on a river of debt that the Labour party would sign us up to with every conceivable reckless way they could spend our money and a pile of borrowed money that one day we'd have to bail them out again with.

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

See what I mean.

Says the person who posted a daily mail link with a straight face!!
Seriously ????? lawl

 

[thenewoc]

I'm going to repeat myself. Is it inconceivable to you that people don't want to see the country destroyed by the tories? The NHS alone is a huge issue.

Investment comes from growth, as the Tories have said we need to get brexit right and other investment stems from that rather than Labour's reckless promises that you can have your cake today on borrowed money and no idea of whether they would pound for pound increase the economy on the back of that spending.

 

[Stretch]

The Choice is not Hard or Soft Brexit - it is Orderly or Disorderly exit. Soft Brexit is a myth.

Nate

Clearly there are many shades between being in the EU like we are today, and being out of the EU like a country such as US.

The disorderly element of Brexit come from the potential disagreements over what our post exit relationship with the EU looks like.

 

[adolf hamster]

But hang on a second: isn’t fascism all about war when liberals are all about peace and love? Not quite, says Goldberg, though this is indeed the most common misconception about the ‘f’ word. It’s not the war part of fascism’s inherent militarism that liberals find so attractive but the way it gives the state the chance to take control and put the whole of society on a war footing. In order to effect this sweeping social mobilisation, liberals need grand and apparently urgent causes to justify the bossiness and repression that this inevitably entails. ‘Climate change’ provided them with a perfect excuse for this kind of statist bullying

i don't even....

you want trying to use conflict to gain control? well take a good hard look at the tories and their "war against terrorism".

you think labour are trying to prepare for a war? laughable it's the party that wants to get rid of our nuclear arsenal, or is removing our most powerful military asset some sort of secret plan to obtain world domination.

 

[StriderX]

Opposed to sold down the river, on a river of debt that the Labour party would sign us up to with every conceivable reckless way they could spend our money and a pile of borrowed money that one day we'd have to bail them out again with.

The Tories signed us up for a 20% drop in currency and a £100 billion bill though.

 

[thenewoc]

What Bribery?

They used to get it a >20 years ago, yet still mostly people who graduated at that time still voted mostly labour. Hmm.

Of course it was bribery, they tried to promises everyone something that's how populist politics works, regardless of how credible their manifesto was I doubt they could have implemented it.

 

[One More Solo]

Ashcroft poll's fairly predictable, from what I can see.

By far, far, far the biggest reason people claimed to vote tory was for brexity reasons. Labour far more evenly spread, but NHS the biggest factor.

It's only ages 55+ that really voted Tory.
Age: Lab% - Tory%
18-24: 66 - 18
25-34: 57 - 22
35-44: 49 - 29
45-54: 38 - 39
55-64: 32 - 46
65+: 23 - 58

Does it not seem slightly unfair that <18 year olds are not allowed to vote yet with our aging population there is no cap on upper voter age? It means the Tories will have a progressively larger voter base over time, many of whom will not live to see the policies enacted (if we're being brutal about it).

 

[thenewoc]

The Tories signed us up for a 20% drop in currency and a £100 billion bill though.

That was the outcome of the referendum.