Poll: Exit Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Results discussion and OcUK Exit Poll - Closing 8th July

Exit poll: Who did you vote for?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 302 27.5%
  • Labour

    Votes: 577 52.6%
  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 104 9.5%
  • Green

    Votes: 13 1.2%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 19 1.7%
  • Scottish National Party

    Votes: 30 2.7%
  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 6 0.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 46 4.2%

  • Total voters
    1,097
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Well I'm glad it will be a total shambles under the control of UK Parliament rather than the EU, in years to come all that legislation returning to our statue book will be up for amendment to suit us better subject to our parliament debating what the UK needs.

just out of interest, which peices of this "legislation" would you specifically like amended?

not trying to be antagonistic, i genuinely would like to know, this "give us back our laws" line was touted a lot during brexit but i've never heard of anything specific.

tbh aside from a couple of bits of the TPD directive i've not had an issue with any of these eu laws.
 
I think this election will go down in history as being a bad example of democracy. I'm not totally against a hung parliament but it couldn't of happened at a worse time. We needed strong and stable when dealing with such a monumental shift in the future of our country. If we didn't have brexit on the horizon I wouldn't have a problem with a hung parliament for our own domestic issues. I think a lot of people voted Labour to give the Tories a bloody nose but messing up brexit won't result in any winners IMO.

Strong and stable - what an expression. Thanks to May it's pretty much achieved the status of bad meaning good.

Based on the continuing lack of a Brexit plan or credible negotiating position beyond being "bloody difficult" and threatening to walk away with nothing, I fail to see any evidence that the Tories would be likely to deliver a good deal even without the disaster of the GE.
 
Hold my beer guys I got this.

If I formed a political party that:

- increased public sector pay but brought back pensions to make it more akin to the private sector (for a net saving, in time, by removing the pensions drain);
- brought in a proportional representation voting system;
- made gross mismanagement / reckless mismanagement of public funds a custodial offence to public sector officials at senior / management levels (or an easier offence to land);
- rolled back anti-terror legislation but increased the task force that could investigate and enforce on proportional laws;
- increase MP pay massively but reduce expenses (net saving);
- add an extra 1p per pound of ring fenced income tax to the NHS;
- retained trident and kept investing in it for but actively pursued long term nuclear disarment in ~50 years;
- rolled back buerocracy in the education system;
- increased corporation tax but avoided the robin hook tax (although seek to establish a Robin Hood tax for the whole EU if we remained a member);
- lowered the 40% tax band by £3k
- make personal allowance decrease by 50p for every pound earned above £80k;
- remove automatic charitable status for religious bodies;
- legalise heavily regulated markets for drugs and prostitution;
- promise to protect the religious from persecution and protect others from persecution by the religious;
- full promotion of LGBT rights (but retain male / female on passport based on whether you have a willy or not);
- set a maximum household benefit cap (exclusion for disabilities);
- JSA decreases over time / paid state jobs provided (exclusion for disabilities);
- roll back 'offence' related crimes to causing 'deliberate malicious offence';
- legislate to force telecommunications providers to share masts;
- make reselling of limited ticket events for a profit (nominal management fee excepted) illegal;

Would you vote for me? \o/

That's my 'back of a fag packet' list anyway :D
 
I agree, the point I'm making however is that the UK must renegotiate its way back in as a Third Country. There is no staying in, the UK will leave, fully. Unless A50 is revoked I suppose, but that's unlikely. Also I think you'll find the EU's idea of the disorderly element has little to do with the future relationship and more to do with the pragmatic details of separation.

Nate

Yes yes. We've all read the literature. Even as the most ardent "remainer", I know that's bull.

The politicians will do what they need to do, and it suits no one for the UK to leave without a successive deal.
 
Does it not seem slightly unfair that <18 year olds are not allowed to vote yet with our aging population there is no cap on upper voter age? It means the Tories will have a progressively larger voter base over time, many of whom will not live to see the policies enacted (if we're being brutal about it).

Its very sensible to let older people vote (assuming their mentally competent)...... for example the older generations will remember what the effects were of applying Marxists policies to countries in Europe up until the late 80's early 90's..... Todays 16 year olds were barely in primary school when the global financial crash started in 2007 so may be a little ignorant of the ways of the world....

I know its popular to castigate the old as a bunch of selfish bigots stealing from the youth but its fair to suggest that their voting patterns also at least partially reflect an acquired realisation that people (or political parties) bearing what they claim to be somewhat enticing gifts are often not quite what they seem and should be treated with a high degree of caution.

Labours entire plan election manifesto spending plan revolved around taxing the 'rich' and businesses more (by raising corporation taxes and higher rate income taxes). Of course as any 1st year economics student should be able to explain changing business and tax rates in of itself changes the actions, attitudes and presence of companies and tax payers that the state wishes to extract money from.

Simply put Labours plans were a recipe for disaster: - increased business and higher personal rate taxation at around the same time your trying to arrange for the country to leave the European Europe = mass uncertainty and very likely large scale reduction of investment and capital flight with companies and skilled workers increasingly looking to take themselves elsewhere.

Result - massive damage to tax base and no guarantee that the higher rates of taxation will generate a net increase in revenue to fund the extravagant spending plans promised.

Quite a few pages back someone tried to make some equivalence between a potential Corbyn government and the Labour government of 1945-51. Of course things were very different then. The UK did not have too much local competition as large swathes of Europe were still (even more) in ruins after the war, the UK had a captive market for its goods in the form of the commonwealth, globalisation had not hit home to a large degree (and wouldn't until around the 1970's) and lots of areas of government spending were far cheaper (the NHS budget as a % of GDP at the time was a fraction of its current %)

Unfortunately none of this is true anymore and any attempt to launch into a massive socialist spending splurge would be an ill advised plan for the UK in 2017
 
Hold my beer guys I got this.

If I formed a political party that:

- increased public sector pay but brought back pensions to make it more akin to the private sector (for a net saving, in time, by removing the pensions drain);

Most public pensions are PONZI schemes.... if you cut the pensions for current workers they may well decided to quit paying into their pensions leaving the government to pick up the tab for current pensioners = big bill in the short to medium term and an increase in people entering retirement or late life ill health with inadequate pension provision

- brought in a proportional representation voting system;

Welcome a load more 'extremist' parties to the UK, far more frequent coalition governments/ hung parliaments and a lack of accountability at a local level as local MP's will no longer necessarily represent the majority vote in their respective areas

- made gross mismanagement / reckless mismanagement of public funds a custodial offence to public sector officials at senior / management levels (or an easier offence to land);

Welcome a culture of extremely risk adverse behaviour... I would love to hear how you would (legally) define 'gross mismanagement' and 'reckless mismanagement'... a also how you would square the circle of allowing punishment for staff in the public sector when those in the private sector are not covered by the same law??? If you were a skilled motivated manager why the hell would you want to work in the public sector under such an oppressive cloud?

- rolled back anti-terror legislation but increased the task force that could investigate and enforce on proportional laws;

please be specific which 'anti terror' laws are you on about??

- increase MP pay massively but reduce expenses (net saving);

- no argument from me here! (other than it might not give you a net saving - expenses are a necessary part of an MP's pay as their circumstances vary widely depending where the constancies are) also savings (in terms of national spending) would be tiny - there's not that many MP's .... (although maybe more than there should be)

- add an extra 1p per pound of ring fenced income tax to the NHS;

The NHS is just going to keep needing more and more money as a % of GDP as people live longer and ever more expensive treatments are developed.... You may find you're needing to add another 'penny in the pound' after not too long.....

- retained trident and kept investing in it for but actively pursued long term nuclear disarment in ~50 years;

Why circa 50 years???? we have no idea what the geo political situation will be then (other than to speculate that its likely to be worse than it is currently as the human population continues to ballon at the same time as global warming and massive resource shortages hit home)......

- rolled back buerocracy in the education system;

probably is too much 'bureaucracy' but specifics needed......


- increased corporation tax but avoided the robin hook tax (although seek to establish a Robin Hood tax for the whole EU if we remained a member);

great recipe for low investment, capital flight and companies seeking to relocate away from the UK especially with brexit in tow! = potential net LOSS of taxes

- lowered the 40% tax band by £3k

mostly as above...... why just 3k? what's the likely effect of taxing higher rate tax payers more. Have you modelled how this will affect the tax base as more people are incentivised to change how or where they work as they don't care to pay more tax to the government?


- make personal allowance decrease by 50p for every pound earned above £80k;

as per above

- remove automatic charitable status for religious bodies;

I would agree that all organisations wanting 'charitable' status should be reviewed in the same fashion....

- legalise heavily regulated markets for drugs and prostitution;

not without its potential issues........


- promise to protect the religious from persecution and protect others from persecution by the religious;

??? so pretty much secular law for everyone then!

- full promotion of LGBT rights (but retain male / female on passport based on whether you have a willy or not);

??? So pretty much as we are now?

- set a maximum household benefit cap (exclusion for disabilities);

Like the Tories then?? (pretty much)


- JSA decreases over time / paid state jobs provided (exclusion for disabilities);

I mostly agree - I prefer a job guarantee system to long term ongoing JSA.....

- roll back 'offence' related crimes to causing 'deliberate malicious offence';

I assume your on about public order offences here??? Good luck legally proving 'deliberate' and 'malicious' (together) in a UK criminal court for public order offences half the time! More hate speech for the win??

- legislate to force telecommunications providers to share masts;

??? would have pretty much zero effect on public finances other than to potentially drop taxation raised as telecoms companies would have less incentive to invest their OWN money in new systems if forced by the state to share with other companies!!!!

- make reselling of limited ticket events for a profit (nominal management fee excepted) illegal;

??? would have pretty much zero effect on public finances... define 'nominal management fee' (ticket resale sites offer genuine services for those unable to attend events they have paid for) how practically are you going to stop ticket resale?? Names on tickets with compulsory ID cards?

Would you vote for me? \o/

...... probably not!

That's my 'back of a fag packet' list anyway :D
 
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@Caracus2k Oh wow thanks for such a detailed response - whilst I feel I could counter most of these and argue for my position I'm going to have to cut my losses, throw in the towel and take my beer back! Dreadfully lazy, please forgive me :)
I would be a single-issue candidate based around putting people who format text that poorly up against the wall
Aww come on I'm on a phone. You could probably dupe me into my demise with the promise of a 'shower beer', mind...
 
Hold my beer guys I got this.

If I formed a political party that:

- increased public sector pay but brought back pensions to make it more akin to the private sector (for a net saving, in time, by removing the pensions drain);
- brought in a proportional representation voting system;
- made gross mismanagement / reckless mismanagement of public funds a custodial offence to public sector officials at senior / management levels (or an easier offence to land);
- rolled back anti-terror legislation but increased the task force that could investigate and enforce on proportional laws;
- increase MP pay massively but reduce expenses (net saving);
- add an extra 1p per pound of ring fenced income tax to the NHS;
- retained trident and kept investing in it for but actively pursued long term nuclear disarment in ~50 years;
- rolled back buerocracy in the education system;
- increased corporation tax but avoided the robin hook tax (although seek to establish a Robin Hood tax for the whole EU if we remained a member);
- lowered the 40% tax band by £3k
- make personal allowance decrease by 50p for every pound earned above £80k;
- remove automatic charitable status for religious bodies;
- legalise heavily regulated markets for drugs and prostitution;
- promise to protect the religious from persecution and protect others from persecution by the religious;
- full promotion of LGBT rights (but retain male / female on passport based on whether you have a willy or not);
- set a maximum household benefit cap (exclusion for disabilities);
- JSA decreases over time / paid state jobs provided (exclusion for disabilities);
- roll back 'offence' related crimes to causing 'deliberate malicious offence';
- legislate to force telecommunications providers to share masts;
- make reselling of limited ticket events for a profit (nominal management fee excepted) illegal;

Would you vote for me? \o/

That's my 'back of a fag packet' list anyway :D

how come you didn't vote lib dem?
 
@Caracus2k Oh wow thanks for such a detailed response - whilst I feel I could counter most of these and argue for my position I'm going to have to cut my losses, throw in the towel and take my beer back! Dreadfully lazy, please forgive me :)

Aww come on I'm on a phone. You could probably dupe me into my demise with the promise of a 'shower beer', mind...

I have thought it was an interesting post, as even though I would not agree with some and phrase other stuff better, I think you're highlighting a lot of what people actually want that seems to be routinely ignored.

Most people want the NHS and the like but realise it needs reform.

Most people recognise we need skilled labour but question the numbers and calibre that is currently in.

Most of the points touch on the fact people want to make Britain better by a normal viewpoint, not hard Tory or softy labour.
 
Well she hasn't left yet so we have tomorrow to look forward too to see what they offer the DUP, then sinn faine lawers break it apart in court for the tories taking sides when they should be arbitrary, fun times
 
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