Poll: Exit Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Results discussion and OcUK Exit Poll - Closing 8th July

[Christmas themed thank]

Cue the flood of its wasnt real socialism/it works in Scandinavia comments.

So how does it work in Scandinavia then?

 

[Stretch]

Just listen to this podcast and tell me the election wasn't about Brexit, and in Davis Davis own words it was about them seeking a mandate for the type of Brexit.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-podcast-jean-claude-juncker-trying-get-sack/

 

[Rroff]

- JSA decreases over time / paid state jobs provided (exclusion for disabilities);

I've often thought it silly JSA, etc. isn't done differently but it seems when it comes down to it most other ideas end up costing the tax payer more.

You also have the issue of distinguishing between those genuinely in need of it and those with no intention of working. I had a time in my life where I was made redundant and despite doing everything I could no one was hiring me even with more interview requests than I could physically fit into a month - then I moved back to my parents in a different area and found a job practically the same day.

 

[adolf hamster]

I've often thought it silly JSA, etc. isn't done differently but it seems when it comes down to it most other ideas end up costing the tax payer more.

You also have the issue of distinguishing between those genuinely in need of it and those with no intention of working. I had a time in my life where I was made redundant and despite doing everything I could no one was hiring me even with more interview requests than I could physically fit into a month - then I moved back to my parents in a different area and found a job practically the same day.

I guess you could base the cutoff for diminishing support based on the mean time people take to regain employment.

Of couse theres still the problem of disability scrounging, but then nothing but intense screening is going to solve that.

 

[dowie]

I guess you could base the cutoff for diminishing support based on the mean time people take to regain employment.

tbh.. I think it should be geared more towards contributions based payments and work more like insurance albeit with a basic rate available to all (regardless of contributions) for 6 months then food stamps/food bank after that... must work for a set period before claiming again else back to food stamps or food bank only

 

[Rroff]

Food stamps/banks really don't work in this context - none the least breed an impossible to regulate black market and increase criminality.

 

[Nitefly]

how come you didn't vote lib dem?

There was a very low chance of lib dems winning and, as we all thought pre-election, I feared a Tory majority so did what I had to stop it. I think I've said before that I'd prefer the lib dems in power than labour.

 

[Nitefly]

I've often thought it silly JSA, etc. isn't done differently but it seems when it comes down to it most other ideas end up costing the tax payer more.

You also have the issue of distinguishing between those genuinely in need of it and those with no intention of working. I had a time in my life where I was made redundant and despite doing everything I could no one was hiring me even with more interview requests than I could physically fit into a month - then I moved back to my parents in a different area and found a job practically the same day.

Yes, it is complicated - I made my post in reference to another extant system when the amount paid to a person decreases after I think one year and then decreases again and again year upon year. I thought it was Denmark but not sure now.

 

[Nate--IRL--]

Yes yes. We've all read the literature. Even as the most ardent "remainer", I know that's bull.

The politicians will do what they need to do, and it suits no one for the UK to leave without a successive deal.

"Literature"? You mean the Negotiation framework document for article 50 agreed by 27 EU members? It is very explicit, all EU existing EU treaties no longer apply to the UK on the 29h March 2019. It also is quite explicit that the future relationship begins from the basis of the UK being a 3rd Country, outside of the EU.

Nate

 

[Nitefly]

I have thought it was an interesting post, as even though I would not agree with some and phrase other stuff better, I think you're highlighting a lot of what people actually want that seems to be routinely ignored.

Most people want the NHS and the like but realise it needs reform.

Most people recognise we need skilled labour but question the numbers and calibre that is currently in.

Most of the points touch on the fact people want to make Britain better by a normal viewpoint, not hard Tory or softy labour.

Thanks! My thoughts are basically 'why aren't we 'star fleet' - how do we get there? I'm just bored of this 'self-serving' parties pursuing their own sustained political dominance and pandering to 'popular opinion'.

 

[stewski]

I've often thought it silly JSA, etc. isn't done differently but it seems when it comes down to it most other ideas end up costing the tax payer more.

You also have the issue of distinguishing between those genuinely in need of it and those with no intention of working. I had a time in my life where I was made redundant and despite doing everything I could no one was hiring me even with more interview requests than I could physically fit into a month - then I moved back to my parents in a different area and found a job practically the same day.

Just to raise awareness the annual JSA spend is less than the Department For Work and Pensions annual administration costs.

Our insanely complex benefits system is a waste of space (as is the tax office), simplification could add savings that could be put into other important state investments (like transport).

 

[sports_brah]

Thanks! My thoughts are basically 'why aren't we 'star fleet' - how do we get there? I'm just bored of this 'self-serving' parties pursuing their own sustained political dominance and pandering to 'popular opinion'.

Our opinons don't tally up unfortunately (bye bye star trek ) because I believe the problem can be essentially boiled down to the immigration we have received. (Speaking as second gen immigrant to UK and now an immigrant somewhere else).

It has essentially put us on a path where we cannot ignore economics. We now rely on it for "growth", " aging populations", "competitive advantage" when this isn't what we should have focused on.

We're post empire we don't need 70m+ rising people in the country. We didn't need mass immigration from every colour and creed which has led the relativism of which colour/idealogy is better.
.
Unfortunately speaking from experience I cant see a happy society out of one that allows multiculturalism instead of integration...

Time (probably too late) to realise we don't need to being the chef in to make his recipe..

 

[Glaucus]

There was a very low chance of lib dems winning and, as we all thought pre-election, I feared a Tory majority so did what I had to stop it. I think I've said before that I'd prefer the lib dems in power than labour.

exactly what i did as well, lib dems are far better, more centralist than either and still liberal and they need a chance in power. its the only way we wll get any true change, i just cant see it happening at least not for another 3 decades even then its a slim chance.

 

[Tunney]

I know its popular to castigate the old as a bunch of selfish bigots stealing from the youth but its fair to suggest that their voting patterns also at least partially reflect an acquired realisation that people (or political parties) bearing what they claim to be somewhat enticing gifts are often not quite what they seem and should be treated with a high degree of caution.

How many old people have been campaigning for an end to the triple-lock on pensions?

Labours entire plan election manifesto spending plan revolved around taxing the 'rich' and businesses more (by raising corporation taxes and higher rate income taxes). Of course as any 1st year economics student should be able to explain changing business and tax rates in of itself changes the actions, attitudes and presence of companies and tax payers that the state wishes to extract money from.

The IFS (who I assume have completed a lot more than the first year of their studies) reckon that Labour would raise £41 billion from their tax plans. This is a shortfall of around £7 billion against their proposed £48 billion.

Yes, Labour are being optimistic with their revenue plans. However, that £7 billion is a drop in the ocean compared to the likely £100 billion that a hard Brexit is going to cost the UK. Brexit is an enticing and completely uncosted gift. The older generations of this country either ignored the cost or didn't care about what it would do to our economy.

 

[Nitefly]

Our opinons don't tally up unfortunately (bye bye star trek ) because I believe the problem can be essentially boiled down to the immigration we have received. (Speaking as second gen immigrant to UK and now an immigrant somewhere else).

It has essentially put us on a path where we cannot ignore economics. We now rely on it for "growth", " aging populations", "competitive advantage" when this isn't what we should have focused on.

We're post empire we don't need 70m+ rising people in the country. We didn't need mass immigration from every colour and creed which has led the relativism of which colour/idealogy is better.
.
Unfortunately speaking from experience I cant see a happy society out of one that allows multiculturalism instead of integration...

Time (probably too late) to realise we don't need to being the chef in to make his recipe..

Star fleet had execellent intetgration. Whorf got to wear his sash whilst wearing the star fleet uniform - that's the sort of integration I'd like to see

exactly what i did as well, lib dems are far better, more centralist than either and still liberal and they need a chance in power. its the only way we wll get any true change, i just cant see it happening at least not for another 3 decades even then its a slim chance.

I hope it'll come a bit sooner - 20 years

 

[Semple]

exactly what i did as well, lib dems are far better, more centralist than either and still liberal and they need a chance in power. its the only way we wll get any true change, i just cant see it happening at least not for another 3 decades even then its a slim chance.

I think the lib dems kinda shot themselves in the foot with this election, by suggesting a second EU referendum or backing out all together. I remember watching the news and wherever Farron went to drive up support for LD he was just mobbed by people asking why he thought a second EU referendum was a good idea when the majority voted to leave.

They need to come up with more attractive policies, the scrapping tuition fees was a great one by Labour, and is something the LD could have pursued as well. Although I think the lib dems are plagued with past mistakes. For the 2010 GE, the LD made a similar pledge to students regarding their tuition fees. What was the actual result of that? - the fees shot up to 9k/year. I don't think many students forgave LD for that betrayal. I know this was mostly driven by the Tories, but you're in a coalition, the whole point is to have agreement on things.

 

[Glaucus]

I think the lib dems kinda shot themselves in the foot with this election, by suggesting a second EU referendum or backing out all together. I remember watching the news and wherever Farron went to drive up support for LD he was just mobbed by people asking why he thought a second EU referendum was a good idea when the majority voted to leave.

They need to come up with more attractive policies, the scrapping tuition fees was a great one by Labour, and is something the LD could have pursued as well. Although I think the lib dems are plagued with past mistakes. For the 2010 GE, the LD made a similar pledge to students regarding their tuition fees. What was the actual result of that? - the fees shot up to 9k/year. I don't think many students forgave LD for that betrayal. I know this was mostly driven by the Tories, but you're in a coalition, the whole point is to have agreement on things.

tehy have many decent policies.

But as soon as the polls showed labour wasn't going to be implode which happened about 20 seconds after GE was called they stood no chance.
They also stand n chance as there is a large portion of society who will not change their allegiance ever and got that allegiance from their parents. Hence why I cant see them doing anything, until at least the over 50s die off. Even then younger generation will probably stick to labour.

 

[delta0]

I think the lib dems kinda shot themselves in the foot with this election, by suggesting a second EU referendum or backing out all together. I remember watching the news and wherever Farron went to drive up support for LD he was just mobbed by people asking why he thought a second EU referendum was a good idea when the majority voted to leave.

They need to come up with more attractive policies, the scrapping tuition fees was a great one by Labour, and is something the LD could have pursued as well. Although I think the lib dems are plagued with past mistakes. For the 2010 GE, the LD made a similar pledge to students regarding their tuition fees. What was the actual result of that? - the fees shot up to 9k/year. I don't think many students forgave LD for that betrayal. I know this was mostly driven by the Tories, but you're in a coalition, the whole point is to have agreement on things.

Vince Cable brought the tuition fee rise to the table. The reality drives the decision in the end. Corbyn can throw as many freebies around as possible to get votes but he is setting himself up to fail. When the reality hits he won't be able to deliver on those.

 

[johnloo]

Star fleet had execellent intetgration. Whorf got to wear his sash whilst wearing the star fleet uniform - that's the sort of integration I'd like to see


I hope it'll come a bit sooner - 20 years

How many old people have been campaigning for an end to the triple-lock on pensions?



The IFS (who I assume have completed a lot more than the first year of their studies) reckon that Labour would raise £41 billion from their tax plans. This is a shortfall of around £7 billion against their proposed £48 billion.

Yes, Labour are being optimistic with their revenue plans. However, that £7 billion is a drop in the ocean compared to the likely £100 billion that a hard Brexit is going to cost the UK. Brexit is an enticing and completely uncosted gift. The older generations of this country either ignored the cost or didn't care about what it would do to our economy.

We will never leave the EU, there are too many hands in the EU pot in this country. Land price has increased because of the EU funding and accelerated migration.

 

[dalehitchy1]

The older generations of this country either ignored the cost or didn't care about what it would do to our economy.

I'll keep repeating this. I think its hilarious when a grey / brexit voter trashes labour and will vote tories because they want to 'protect the economy'

If they really did.... They would have voted remain and not let pensions get out of control aka triple lock.

When one of these people pretend to care about the economy I cant help but roll my eyes.