F1 2015 - Teams and Drivers - Who goes where?!

Skeeter said:
Of course, its a different time. But this 'dream team' that people hark on about at Ferrari still took 5 years before winning a title.
Alonso has a limited time left in F1, and I think most people (including Ferrari themselves) will admit that Ferrari aren't going to be dominating the sport again within that time. However, Vettels time in F1 has much longer to run, so I can fully understand why he might want to get onboard with them for the long haul, and be part of the resurgence. If things aren't looking up in another 5 years then he still has time to try elsewhere. Alonso doesn't have the time to wait any longer.
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Ah ok understood, except if Vettel hasn't got close to a title in 3 year let alone 5 I can't imagine him hanging on either? I just don't see Vettel winning a title there in 3 years unless they open up testing again. I don't think he would have got as close as Alonso did had the roles been reversed.

It's a bold move, whether it's because Neweys looks to be taking a step back from F1 or because he's had it handed to him by DR, it's still a big step to move to Ferrari right now.
 
drunkenmaster said:
Definitions don't change the context but the context was clear as day. I was referring to Magnussen/Perez as having potential because they are inexperienced and young and Button as having no potential.

You could have said, opps, wrong, I apologise and misunderstood, instead you tried to make out you were still somehow right, you weren't.

My entire post was talking about the point of comparing a rookie to an experienced driver is making a judgement about where the younger driver still with potential to show will be a few years later there is absolutely no possible way the context could be misinterpreted.
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Sigh. 'Zero potential' (in how I read your post) was that he has nothing at all to give and that he's allll washed up (as you were cherry picking some odd stats to prove your point). My (and others) point is that he consistently scores points and keeps out of trouble - teams want points. The 'context' of your post came across as yet another 'lets bash Button cos its the cool thing to do', if that wasn't your intention then fair enough.

I can't apologise for misunderstanding if you weren't clear in the first place, but As I said, I don't want this thread to descend into bickering as it's a genuinely good thread, so take that as you will.
 
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dannyjo22 said:
Ah ok understood, except if Vettel hasn't got close to a title in 3 year let alone 5 I can't imagine him hanging on either? I just don't see Vettel winning a title there in 3 years unless they open up testing again. I don't think he would have got as close as Alonso did had the roles been reversed.

It's a bold move, whether it's because Neweys looks to be taking a step back from F1 or because he's had it handed to him by DR, it's still a big step to move to Ferrari right now.
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Yeah I'm with you, its an uphill struggle.

But on the other side, I can't see RBR being around forever. Red Bull are in it for the PR. As soon as they stop winning they will be gone, as will their money. Perhaps Vettel sees Ferrari as a more stable, if not as quick (for the moment) future?
 
Skeeter said:
Vettel could spend 10 years at Ferrari. Look at what the last German to spend a decade at Ferrari did? And they were underperforming when he joined...
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That last german could cope well with off balance cars.. Vettel is very rear end sensitive (fnarr?) and has not coped well with the lack of rear downforce in this years cars nor does he seem to be learning to cope with it very quickly (compared to other established drivers).

I don't think he will do so well at Ferrari.
 
smr said:
Ive already said btw... Alonso signed for Mclaren last week and will be on €35m a year.
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McLaren F1 boss Ron Dennis says team hasn't signed Fernando Alonso

McLaren chief Ron Dennis has rejected suggestions that his Formula 1 team has already signed Fernando Alonso, even though talks with the Spaniard are at an advanced stage.

Alonso is set to be replaced at Ferrari by Sebastian Vettel, and he is expected to conclude a deal with McLaren to lead it during its new Honda era.

But no contract is yet in place, and McLaren Group CEO Dennis made it clear at the Japanese Grand Prix that the team was not yet in a position to confirm its bid to lure Alonso has been successful.

"We do not have a contract with any driver at this moment in time. It isn't our priority," he said....
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Hmm. So Alonso has confirmed he is leaving Ferrari, but there is no confirmation on where he's going, and Vettel has confirmed he is leaving RBR, and while RBR say he's going to Ferrari, there no confirmation on that yet either.

Pretty sure we all know whats going to happen, but its interesting that both drivers have felt the need to pull the trigger on their current contracts without being able to confirm their new ones... Maybe they are both planning on playing multiple teams off against each other now they are both effectively "on the market".
 
He's off to Mclaren.

Nothing but soap opera that the principles are fuelling. Either due to legal reasons or die to typhoon tomorrow.
 
He isn't going to leave F1. Its Alonso, double world champion and "considered the best driver on the grid by many". While publicly teams may deny it, I can pretty much guarantee that every team up and down the whole grid has at least made a passing attempt at an offer.

Same for Vettel. There are far to many seats in far to many teams with the cash to mean they both wont be in F1 next year. Its just a case of playing the contract negotiations game.

Its worth noting that F1 drivers contracts are confidential by regulation. Its against the rules for any team to discuss them, weather they exist or not. So in terms of what the team can publicly say, until there is a signature on a dotted line, no contract exists.
 
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I can't get my head around why these pundits think that because he's leaving Ferrari but doesn't have a contract in place hes stuffed? Its Alonso guys! Come on! He will have had 4 driver offers while walking back to his motorhome! Frank Williams is remortgaging the house, Vijay is getting a valuation on his airline, Toto just looked at the fine print in Hamilton's contract...
 
Skeeter said:
I can't get my head around why these pundits think that because he's leaving Ferrari but doesn't have a contract in place hes stuffed? Its Alonso guys! Come on! He will have had 4 driver offers while walking back to his motorhome! Frank Williams is remortgaging the house, Vijay is getting a valuation on his airline, Toto just looked at the fine print in Hamilton's contract...
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Totally agree but the blood letting will commence with your last statement :D

Brace yourself! ;)

I don't see Alonso as stupid enough to put himself in a position where if he doesn't sign Ron's deal he has no drive. Who knows but I would be surprised if the deal hasn't been done.
 
:p

Both Vettel and Alonso have terminated contracts. You have to imagine that every team owner has just pulled out a copy of their own drivers contracts to just remind themselves of how water tight they are... ;)
 
robbiemc said:
Sigh. 'Zero potential' (in how I read your post) was that he has nothing at all to give and that he's allll washed up (as you were cherry picking some odd stats to prove your point). My (and others) point is that he consistently scores points and keeps out of trouble - teams want points. The 'context' of your post came across as yet another 'lets bash Button cos its the cool thing to do', if that wasn't your intention then fair enough.

I can't apologise for misunderstanding if you weren't clear in the first place, but As I said, I don't want this thread to descend into bickering as it's a genuinely good thread, so take that as you will.
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Everyone expects Magnussen to lose to Button, but Magnussen has spanked Button in qualifying and shown many good moves out on track. Button has zero potential, Magnussen has loads, you're guessing where Magnussen will be in 2-3 years time to judge how good he is, not how good he is right this second.
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Wasn't clear in what way I was using the word potential, seriously? used odd stats? Where did I bring up odd stats, where did I give the impression that Magnussen was winning against him using such cherry picked stats.

I can't stand that when people utterly misunderstand a post they go defensive and start talking complete crap in defence of their mistake, accusing the other person of well, standard things, "oh you used weird stats", "your post wasn't clear", and the irritating standard reply of

"I've misunderstood the post, so I'll blame you while also saying lets not ruin the thread ...." , no one buys that crap. My post was as clear as day.


The general question is why keep Magnussen over Button because Button is beating Magnussen this year..... because Button won't improve and no one expects him to, Magnussen is doing well in his rookie season and has the potential to improve significantly over time.
 
Give it a rest and keep to talking about driver contracts, no one gives a flying **** about who, how or why the word 'potential' was used ffs.

Personally can't wait to see Alonso at McLaren again but without a Ron Dennis golden child to partner him, given that's what everything is pointing at happening. Alonso with the full force of McLaren behind him could be a good title contender if Honda can do something to match Mercedes or better them.

Engines are able to change still before next season though aren't they? Lets hope Honda don't get left behind by a year's worth of improvements to existing tested designs.
 
Glaucus said:
If he does retire, somehow I can't see it just yet, bit also can't see him going back to a midfield team.

Him at le mans, would give me a proper car to support.
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Except he's often said he has no interest in driving in other types of motorsport.

Frankly I hope he stays away from endurance racing as I'm sick of ex-F1 drivers seemingly thinking it's something they can just "try their hand at" and that it's less demanding. Personally I think endurance racing is far more demanding a discipline than F1 will ever be and have the utmost respect for the top guys in the sport, those who've dedicated the best years of their racing careers to it rather than treating it as something to do "after F1".
 
Skeeter said:
:p

Both Vettel and Alonso have terminated contracts. You have to imagine that every team owner has just pulled out a copy of their own drivers contracts to just remind themselves of how water tight they are... ;)
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The contracts are generally water-tight. Any clauses, expressed terms, and/or conditions are their there because both parties agreed to them.

If Alonso had a clause that states he can leave if he isn't in the top three y September, then that's a feature of the contract. it doesn't make the contract any less water tight.

Not being water tight would mean being able to escape a contract on a technically perhaps due to poor wording or poorly defined terms, that neither party anticipated upon agreeing to the contract. I've not seen that happen in F1. Button's came close but then the contract was bought out, so we don't know how that would have played out in the courts.
 
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