Forgot how bad job searching was :(

[BYTEr]

Just been offered an interview for a Graduate Management Trainee role for Thursday where I'll be asked to deliver a 10 minute presentation on a topic of my choice, where I'll only have use of a flipchart.

Absolutely bricking it to be honest, its an excellent opportunity, I think I'm fairly strong at presenting, just wish I was given a topic, no idea what to do it on, I have a few hobbies and interests, but feel I should do something at least vaguely related to the company.

 

[NickK]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33957484

Hmm just applied to Amazon. Concerned that it's the management that's talking rather than the a more widespread distributed counter-statement from ex-employees etc. Seems to me verging on the illegal or open shut case of constructive dismissal if someone is singled out for miscarriage or cancer. Having been on the receiving end of miscarriage twice I'd be livid and reading the ****ing riot act.

Considering retracting my application..

 

[Richdog]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33957484

Hmm just applied to Amazon. Concerned that it's the management that's talking rather than the a more widespread distributed counter-statement from ex-employees etc. Seems to me verging on the illegal or open shut case of constructive dismissal if someone is singled out for miscarriage or cancer. Having been on the receiving end of miscarriage twice I'd be livid and reading the ****ing riot act.

Considering retracting my application..

For all we know the comments made about the place are hearsay, and was based on the word of one emplyee. One other employee also denied the claims.

To be honest it sounds like a bit of smear campaign, as no company could uphold those kind of crappy working conditions without it having come out long before now.

 

[NickK]

For all we know the comments made about the place are hearsay, and was based on the word of one emplyee. One other employee also denied the claims.

To be honest it sounds like a bit of smear campaign, as no company could uphold those kind of crappy working conditions without it having come out long before now.

However you look at other companies and the look/feel of the culture is known, and people will comment on if it's true or not. Just concerned there seems to be a all of silence. I have heard things in the past but also labeled these as not indicative.

Will leave the application but I'll be following it..

 

[dlite]

My wife has been sending few applications, but she doesn't seem to get any responses and I'm trying to figure out what she should do differently.

I find this quite surprising, since as far as I can see, she ought to be more or less ideal candidate for the positions she has been applying. She has all the required and most nice-to-have boxes ticked and she is just now graduating from an Arts Management Master's with some administrative work experience & plenty of other experience in the same field before she went back to university. She's been applying to music schools, orchestras and some trusts to administrative positions that seem to fit her quite nicely.

Or could it even be that she is overqualified with her degree & experience when she's been applying to entry level / slightly higher administrative positions that seem to match her skill set, experience and interests nicely? However, applying for step higher jobs seems impossible though, because they often seem to require managerial experience, which she has very little experience with aside for doing some work schedules.

Most places seem ask you to fill a standard form, which basically contains everything you'd normally put into a CV etc. and have a page at the end dedicated for what we've understood as a space for writing your cover letter. "Personal things and why should you be chosen for this spot" or something like that.

Often these are accompanied with: "Applications without the filled form will not be accepted" so we fill the form to best of our abilities, which is not always easy because she has studied abroad instead of doing GSCE's & the normal British stuff and then send it together with the CV. She is also pretty decent writer and has produced quite nice specific to the job cover letters which clearly express interest towards the company, projects, etc.

Is there something we are missing? Should she call beforehand to prime the recipient? How about calling afterwards, even though many say "please don't contact us, we'll inform you"?

What is the general opinion about what should be done and what not?

Or is it just that she needs to send lot more than few applications and also look for internships instead of real jobs despite having experience & degree on the field? Or could it be that our current contact details outside of UK are making prospective employers so scared, that they don't even want to consider her?

 

[NickK]

My wife has been sending few applications, but she doesn't seem to get any responses and I'm trying to figure out what she should do differently.

I find this quite surprising, since as far as I can see, she ought to be more or less ideal candidate for the positions she has been applying. She has all the required and most nice-to-have boxes ticked and she is just now graduating from an Arts Management Master's with some administrative work experience & plenty of other experience in the same field before she went back to university. She's been applying to music schools, orchestras and some trusts to administrative positions that seem to fit her quite nicely.

...

Or is it just that she needs to send lot more than few applications and also look for internships instead of real jobs despite having experience & degree on the field? Or could it be that our current contact details outside of UK are making prospective employers so scared, that they don't even want to consider her?

I have, roughly, a 16:1 application to contact ratio (people actually respond). It seems that on the one hand employers are complaining there's nobody to employ, however on the other hand the use of software "sifting", super picky with the results and then a large number of automatic applications (i.e. people click to apply) results in even slower.

The result is that people spam the job boards and applications, get a set of interviews and then those continue to the point where there's an offer - the individual then decides they're going with someone else.. I've had people tell me that the role is made available because the successful applicant went to a larger company.

The concept of job hunting is a mess - made worse by technology.

The only way nowadays to get a job quick is (a) contract, (b) know the people and they know you, or, (c) start your own company.

 

[NickK]

This is an interesting site: https://www.jobscan.co

Cut & paste your CV (note don't do your personal details for security) then put in the job application. It's an interesting exercise.

As a lot of agents use a word matching system, this is a good way to check if you're not matching. Annoyingly I would love for people to read my CV.. but unfortunately it appears that isn't the case, it appears my CV needs a refresh with relevant keywords - where the skills are there, the matches aren't.

 

[phrases]

Anyone have a link to examples of good cv's have not done one in awhile and the company i work for closes end of October so i must get busy and update my skills list but its pretty daunting and I've had a quick look online at how best to present my cv as i don't want it to look too bland or basic and scream i don't really care.

Thanks.

 

[NickK]

Had a 3 question prelim interview yesterday through a direct application. Project rather than product which lead to the prelim being a "why do you want todo project when your CV says product". Should know early next week - with two face to face and a psychometric (never done one before but hey). It will be an interesting role. The reality is there's not that much difference between project and product management - the core parts tend to be around a defined scope terminating in a delivery vs scope creation in a wider context. Lots of ways to skin the cat..

Also have an offer of an interview with a CEO the main issue is the role base office is a 2-3 hour commute, however they also have a London office that the senior position would work at. The other point is that they're offering 10K less top end than I've been on for the last few years. Although not in London, it's kind of saying we're not prepared to pay or adapt for you.
The commute could be done if it's a one a week, time in London and around clients sites. The role is interesting - just the position.. I already know the CEO has actually read my linkedin profile too.. so there is interest on their side to show this tentative interview offer..

Calls from agents yesterday - they're very interested but everyone does seem to be on a journey to nothing by not accepted 100% match perfect applications.

Today is slow start but I will push out a load of applications after lunch

 

[FortuitousFluke]

Does anybody have any experience of breaking out of retail management? My partner manages a jewellery shop (work force of around 5-8 depending on time of year), and she's being treated quite poorly by the organisation (as are the rest of the employees).

She's keen to move into another industry because her heart isn't in retail and it feels like a dead end, it has her quite down at times.

The issue is we're having trouble working out her options, she's quite downbeat and doesn't consider her skills transferable, I'm less concerned but don't have any experience of making that leap. In addition she's not overly keen to take a pay cut (£21k atm and we have financial commitments) and doesn't have a degree, which seems somewhat limiting.

Is there anybody here who's made the leap and can just give us a few words that might point us in the right direction? Is it worth looking at rectruitment agencies for permanent work or are they just going to suggest retail?

She currently works in Cambridge so the economy is okay for jobs at the moment, she just needs a push in the right direction with regards to how she pitches herself and what to aim for.

 

[£15]

Well re doing my CV has seemed to work, been offer a job but they are wanting me to do 40 hours of unpaid training. To me that seems like a massive **** take but having been unemployed for 7 months don't really have a choice!

I'm not sure that's strictly 'legal'. My wife and her replacement (she left after a few months) both had several weeks 'training' (doing the job) unpaid. Both my wife and her spoke to ACAS and were told the same thing - it's possibly unlawful and definitely 'wrong'.

Still looking for an entry level job

Had my interview with BT Openreach, but was unsuccessful. Looking for something similar, decent pay and no experience needed, also with career progression.

If anyone can put me in the right direction that would be appreciated!

I started off looking at BT Openreach, but ended up applying to British Gas to be a 'Smart Energy Expert', or a meter fitter. Have you considered that?

Their website should tell you if they're recruiting in your area. Let me know if you do, I think I get a bonus for recommending someone.

 

[dlite]

Does anybody have any experience of breaking out of retail management? My partner manages a jewellery shop (work force of around 5-8 depending on time of year), and she's being treated quite poorly by the organisation (as are the rest of the employees).

She's keen to move into another industry because her heart isn't in retail and it feels like a dead end, it has her quite down at times.

The issue is we're having trouble working out her options, she's quite downbeat and doesn't consider her skills transferable, I'm less concerned but don't have any experience of making that leap. In addition she's not overly keen to take a pay cut (£21k atm and we have financial commitments) and doesn't have a degree, which seems somewhat limiting.

Is there anybody here who's made the leap and can just give us a few words that might point us in the right direction? Is it worth looking at rectruitment agencies for permanent work or are they just going to suggest retail?

She currently works in Cambridge so the economy is okay for jobs at the moment, she just needs a push in the right direction with regards to how she pitches herself and what to aim for.

If changing industry feels difficult, how about hopping jobs laterally to another retailer?

 

[NickK]

Had a rough night with the mrs, lots of stress and strain. First time I've seen her cry in this process. Money is getting tighter. Woke up at 3.. been reading the job boards, thinking where I could have been going wrong - not an easy task without feedback - and looking for the areas I must be weak on. So here I am writing..

If I'm brutally honest - I have a routine, I get up at 7.. in bed between 9-10. I find that either (a) I'm immediately engaged in searching for jobs on the boards, or (b) I'm distracted in reading linked in articles, this can lead to FB or just forum reading in the afternoon.

Looking at the calendar for the year, I can see the recorded applications and the follow up work - it seems that it goes in fits and starts as the jobs appear, with april and may being slow. The last month is a beehive of applications, so fundamentally there's something wrong. I can see the last week has been slow due to being distracted (you go through phases but it's important to record the applications so you an show yourself how long that been going on and how regularly that occurs - and if it's related to feedback). I record the day of application, then add the 2 week point that indicates a typical follow up or reject. If the company rejects I'll record that - even if it's after the two weeks.
I typically use a CV with a covering letter.

Here's some thoughts from the thinking over the last hour or so:
* Automatching and agents/HR keyword bingo sucks - the only way is to set your CV with the language/words that the job specs are matching against.

* Job boards that allow you to store ONE CV defeat the purpose and don't support tuning the language (same skill - different matching words) to the job specification.

* Achievement based CVs - these are very difficult for agents and filtering systems to detect matches. Mine is an achievement based CV - it demonstrates what I have done, rather than list the job specification. This I need to redo.

* Cover letter - I focus on showing how the work I have done can support their business. I've switched recently from just stating the applicable skills to demonstrating how my skills (that they'd be interested in) really made a difference to the previous company. Moot point that the role was made redundant, the work I did supported their goals until they pivoted.

* When shortlisted - then my CV may be read by a human understanding the role. Typically if I apply directly it's pretty obvious if they're interested and have read the CV.

* interview prep - interview prep isn't the day before, it's an ongoing part of your weekly routine. I tend to be lapse at this - preparing in the two-three days before hand rather than doing a presentation to video cameras, or recording my phone conversations so I can detect my weak responses (recording my side not theirs).

* psychometric testing prep - keep doing the puzzles and work books during the week. I need to start doing this.

* Happy tone - getting into the happy zone for doing the work is critical. If you talk, write or plan then it's this zone that comes through in the discussion.

I now have the agent patter down to a speedy call - understanding they have a set of demands:
* auto matching
* position - why am I not employed now.. restructure redundancy..
* contract/perm - rate/salary expectation

Linked in - I need to change
* start exploring if the connections know of roles..
* start writing posts

The recording of the dates on the calendar is good - it shows me the activity, helps reinforce myself that I have been trying and it shows the level of responses. I would recommend this to everyone. Just make sure you record the job spec rather than URL link as I found that Reed deletes the URL as soon as it expires.


So.. I'm in a bit of a bind because I've really tried to distance myself from the old telecoms area in favour of moving to new markets. The reality is that I've failed in achieving that (no job - so therefore I've failed) so I think I may have to explore that side - in a different way.
I have lots of experience in software development, and product development, so I may see if the management consultancies are interested in this.. this is an angle I've not attempted.
Also the reality is that I need, at least in the short term to get a contract to give me a boost more than anything, give me some salary and to give me some breathing room. In fact a part time job, a couple of days a week may be the only way to keep going whilst I look.

Just don't like the idea that April sees new taxation on contractors.. but a moot point is probably won't have a house by then if it gets to that.

Humble.. just because you have experience doesn't mean you're employable. It seems that everyone is looking for a perfect match, a feeling that is probably created by the high response rate to adverts and the only way is to use matching software which is why everything is so 'perfect' and employers are still searching.

Lastly lastly.. I think people are really focused on lower salaries. It's not a good idea to drop in salary as it undermines your worth and professional standing. However I may be tempted to look at knocking a bit off.. if it gets a foot in the door of the organisation.

Sorry that's a long post - a combination of me getting things off my chest and trying to suggest points that people may find useful. I'm not someone that jumps off bridges - I am someone that gets frustrated (impatient with the lack of progress) and my picture of self-worth oscillates. I'm used to "making things happen" in organisations, being active and really starting from scratch todo that.. but job hunt now is nothing like I've ever experienced before. It's like you're stuck in passive jobs-worth hell..

Back to bed

 

[BYTEr]

I'd just like to ask something as for the first time, I've got 2 job interviews lined up at once. Both are good graduate training positions in my desired industry, however one is clearly better than the other in terms of the training programme, career progression, bigger company, £4.5k better starting salary etc, however this job interview is a week after the other, not quite as good one. What happens if I get offered the job with the first company? I can't turn it down in case I don't get offered the job with the 2nd company, but then if the 2nd company do offer me the job I can't turn that one down as it has better prospects, should I just tell the first company I can't start until a week after the 2nd interview as then hopefully I'd know by then. I could just be honest with the 1st company, but then that might work against me.

Ofcourse there's always a chance I don't get offered a job with either

Any input would be greatly appreciated thanks.

 

[Mr^B]

I'd just like to ask something as for the first time, I've got 2 job interviews lined up at once. Both are good graduate training positions in my desired industry, however one is clearly better than the other in terms of the training programme, career progression, bigger company, £4.5k better starting salary etc, however this job interview is a week after the other, not quite as good one. What happens if I get offered the job with the first company? I can't turn it down in case I don't get offered the job with the 2nd company, but then if the 2nd company do offer me the job I can't turn that one down as it has better prospects, should I just tell the first company I can't start until a week after the 2nd interview as then hopefully I'd know by then. I could just be honest with the 1st company, but then that might work against me.

Ofcourse there's always a chance I don't get offered a job with either

Any input would be greatly appreciated thanks.

If it comes to it, be honest with the first company and say that you have other interviews coming up. However, the chances of you being offered the job within a week, on the strength of just one interview is VERY slender. Even if they do offer you a role, you don't have to accept straight away.

 

[dlite]

I'd just like to ask something as for the first time, I've got 2 job interviews lined up at once. Both are good graduate training positions in my desired industry, however one is clearly better than the other in terms of the training programme, career progression, bigger company, £4.5k better starting salary etc, however this job interview is a week after the other, not quite as good one. What happens if I get offered the job with the first company? I can't turn it down in case I don't get offered the job with the 2nd company, but then if the 2nd company do offer me the job I can't turn that one down as it has better prospects, should I just tell the first company I can't start until a week after the 2nd interview as then hopefully I'd know by then. I could just be honest with the 1st company, but then that might work against me.

Ofcourse there's always a chance I don't get offered a job with either

Any input would be greatly appreciated thanks.

If you get offered the first job on the spot, there will for sure be an trial/probation period. I think trial periods work both directions? Use that for your benefit. Assuming you don't feel bad about possibly burning bridges behind you.

If offer doesn't come on the spot, then most likely you can postpone the signing of the contract to happen well after the interview in the second company.

edit: ah, training programmes, I'm not sure those have probation periods?

 

[A2Z]

I'd just like to ask something as for the first time, I've got 2 job interviews lined up at once. Both are good graduate training positions in my desired industry, however one is clearly better than the other in terms of the training programme, career progression, bigger company, £4.5k better starting salary etc, however this job interview is a week after the other, not quite as good one. What happens if I get offered the job with the first company? I can't turn it down in case I don't get offered the job with the 2nd company, but then if the 2nd company do offer me the job I can't turn that one down as it has better prospects, should I just tell the first company I can't start until a week after the 2nd interview as then hopefully I'd know by then. I could just be honest with the 1st company, but then that might work against me.

Ofcourse there's always a chance I don't get offered a job with either

Any input would be greatly appreciated thanks.

Go to first interview, if offered the job accept it.

Go to second interview, if offered job and you feel it's better, accept it and quit from 1st job.

Seems pretty simple, what's the problem?

 

[Tefal]

I'd just like to ask something as for the first time, I've got 2 job interviews lined up at once. Both are good graduate training positions in my desired industry, however one is clearly better than the other in terms of the training programme, career progression, bigger company, £4.5k better starting salary etc, however this job interview is a week after the other, not quite as good one. What happens if I get offered the job with the first company? I can't turn it down in case I don't get offered the job with the 2nd company, but then if the 2nd company do offer me the job I can't turn that one down as it has better prospects, should I just tell the first company I can't start until a week after the 2nd interview as then hopefully I'd know by then. I could just be honest with the 1st company, but then that might work against me.

Ofcourse there's always a chance I don't get offered a job with either

Any input would be greatly appreciated thanks.

you can stall for a week

 

[BYTEr]

If it comes to it, be honest with the first company and say that you have other interviews coming up. However, the chances of you being offered the job within a week, on the strength of just one interview is VERY slender. Even if they do offer you a role, you don't have to accept straight away.

The other reason I'm asking is, without being over confident, I think there's a good chance I'll be offered both jobs, the 1st job I exceed all the person specifics and have quite a lot of experience of what the job entails, it looks like there also taking on at least 3 graduates, so I'd hope my chances are good. The 2nd job interview is actually my 2nd interview with the company, they said I did very well with the 1st interview but feel I'd be better suited with this role at this site as its more practical and they've put in a very good word for me with the site manager as in their words, they don't want to lose a good candidate.

If you get offered the first job on the spot, there will for sure be an trial/probation period. I think trial periods work both directions? Use that for your benefit. Assuming you don't feel bad about possibly burning bridges behind you.

If offer doesn't come on the spot, then most likely you can postpone the signing of the contract to happen well after the interview in the second company.

edit: ah, training programmes, I'm not sure those have probation periods?

I'm not sure about probation periods etc, I suppose its something I could ask at the interview if its not explained.

Go to first interview, if offered the job accept it.

Go to second interview, if offered job and you feel it's better, accept it and quit from 1st job.

Seems pretty simple, what's the problem?

Well, like mentioned above, I don't particularly want to be burning bridges, the 1st company is still a fairly big company and there may be a chance in the future I'd want to work with them, I just think it would look incredibly bad on myself accepting a job, then quickly saying I've changed my mind, or even going to work to quit the next day etc. Hopefully there be ok with me possibly delaying a decision, but again, that might not look so good either.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Mr^B]

The other reason I'm asking is, without being over confident, I think there's a good chance I'll be offered both jobs, the 1st job I exceed all the person specifics and have quite a lot of experience of what the job entails, it looks like there also taking on at least 3 graduates, so I'd hope my chances are good. The 2nd job interview is actually my 2nd interview with the company, they said I did very well with the 1st interview but feel I'd be better suited with this role at this site as its more practical and they've put in a very good word for me with the site manager as in their words, they don't want to lose a good candidate.

You can still delay answering, you don't have to answer straight away. Wait until you've had the offers or rejections in before doing anything.