Former Russian double agent seriously ill in Salisbury.

Chris Wilson · 5 Jul 2018 at 15:54

VincentHanna said:
Are you kidding? If England win the World cup, it would be perfect for the current Government, who will release all the bad news they have (Brexit or otherwise) in the press the day after and it'll mostly get ignored because 11 men won a game of football and we're the best nation ever ever ever and it'll be buried behind the 50 page Super Sun World Cup winners commemorative edition.

Err, murdering two innocent members of the public is a bit different to using the cover of a football match win to mask the release of unpopular news items. That's the "imprudence" I meant.

VincentHanna · 5 Jul 2018 at 16:01

Well yes, that is a bit far fetched.

Look Chris, we agree!

Chris Wilson · 5 Jul 2018 at 16:20

VincentHanna said:
Well yes, that is a bit far fetched.

Look Chris, we agree!

My eyes, my eyes, I'll have to avert my gaze, sorry

I'm sure we probably agree on many things, but forums tend to highlight things people disagree over

Screeeech · 5 Jul 2018 at 16:59

Danny75 said:
In this regard, members of government don't have to pull off anything, other than jump when told to, and run with a story, believe what they are told to believe, react how they are briefed to react, and qualify it all to cover their ***** with "highly likely".

Doesn't stand up for one second. In today's world members of the government can't even have an affair, or look at porn on their PC (Damien Green) without it being leaked and turned into a national story - to think they can just casually pull this sort of thing off, is tantamount to impossible, it doesn't stand up for a second and never has.

Danny75 said:
As for the question about possible motives, plenty have been offered in this thread (back in the day) already. Including that there are those in NATO countries who hate Russia with a passion, for not bending over and letting them do as they please, and seeking a multi-polar world, instead of accepting uni-polar NATO domination. Assad must go versus the will of the Syrian people must be respected. Russia annexed Crimea versus NATO organised a coup in Ukraine which not all of Ukraine accepted, including Crimea which historically was and felt Russian. So there are those who want to hurt Russia's reputation, transmit the image that their morals leave a lot to be desired, damage them financially with sanctions, raise doubts over whether Russia destroyed all its chemical weapon stockpiles when time is approaching for the US to finally do the same... and possibly bring all this crap up again during the World Cup, using two human guinea pigs that will provide even more information about Novichok and its effects on humans, to interested parties. Who to pick? How about two heroin addicts? When to do it? Well not on the first day of the World Cup, too damn obvious. Wait a bit, hopefully England will get knocked out. They surprisingly haven't been? Well, too bad. Must happen now. There was always going to be an Act II to this.

I might be inclined to agree that there are people in NATO countries who hate Russia with a passion, but merely "knocking off" a former spy, to me - doesn't really seem to achieve any objectives for anyone other than the Russian government, because it's sending a message - defy us and you will be killed. That is the most likely explanation for all of this - it's Russia doing what it's well documented and known to do, strongman and scare tactics that act as a deterrence against anyone who might harm their interests, this sort of thing is business as usual for Russia. (Litvinenko, countless others in other countries, and ones we probably don't know about)

All of the other explanations are far too complicated, all the conspiracy theories and false flag theories require too many moving parts, too many people - in this day and age where the media has unprecedented levels of access into government corridors - with no serious repercussions for leaking, it's almost impossible to think that should things could take place in secret.

Put it this way; If you hated Russia so much, were in possession of Novichok and wanted to cause a false flag attack, with the intention of making Russia look very bad, causing serious implications and a major incident - why just attempt to kill a former spy and his daughter? It would make far more sense to poison 500 people to death randomly, that would do the job far more effectively than just killing a former spy.. That would wreck everything.

Danny75 said:
There are equally, if not more so, crazy things about the Skripal story, including both victims conveniently collapsing at the same time, after 4-5 hours of allegedly receiving the dose. Rain allegedly helping to minimize the dose so that they didn't die... but found in surprisingly non-degraded levels in Skripal samples and still enough to kill four months later in tiny amounts (we are told). Baby wipes will get rid of it. Nope, full decontamination required. Now baby wipe advice again. Now you have the government purchasing the Skripal and Bailey properties (but not Zizzi's or the pub) with tax-payer money, which might be a sneaky way of laundering payments made for silence/services rendered. No secret payments to offshore accounts. No secret testing on humans. All out in the open. All explainable. Because evil Russia.

All of this sounds like random people typing on Reddit, or in the comments section of a David Icke website.

Werewolf · 5 Jul 2018 at 17:05

Rroff said:
Nope - as has been mentioned several times many Novichok variants are designed for final assembly from precursors in the field (makes it safer for handling until needed and easier to smuggle into places, etc.) and that can have a big impact on the potency in actual use versus on paper when assembled fully in a lab.

Also how you are exposed and for how long makes a big difference.

A drop in constant contact with the skin for a prolonged period will be much worse than the same amount that is quickly wiped off (like you do when you get something on your hands).

Jokester · 5 Jul 2018 at 19:39

Seems some people have been watching RT again lol.

dowie · 5 Jul 2018 at 19:48

The reporting now mentions it is thought to have been a vial or syringe "because of their lifestyle" - is that a polite way of pointing out that they are a couple of smack heads?

Jokester · 5 Jul 2018 at 20:02

Loves Love Island said:
The reporting now mentions it is thought to have been a vial or syringe "because of their lifestyle" - is that a polite way of pointing out that they are a couple of smack heads?

Yup. They've had to rehouse a bunch of folk from a homeless shelter as well where she was staying apparently.

Dis86 · 5 Jul 2018 at 20:36

Loves Love Island said:
The reporting now mentions it is thought to have been a vial or syringe "because of their lifestyle" - is that a polite way of pointing out that they are a couple of smack heads?

It was initially stated that they thought it was drugs related possibly heroin. Then it was confirmed as Novicek so looks like it's been fairly obvious they're smack rats from the outset.

dowie · 5 Jul 2018 at 20:40

Dis86 said:
It was initially stated that they thought it was drugs related possibly heroin. Then it was confirmed as Novicek so looks like it's been fairly obvious they're smack rats from the outset.

yeah I did suspect something similar yesterday...

Loves Love Island said:
"Eh look, someone has left their stash" "hang on what is this stuff?"

question is did they just pick up the item or have they been stupid enough to attempt to use it in some way... either way as sad as it is that they're in hospital I'm glad it was a couple of idiots rather than say a small child stumbling upon the item

LOAM · 5 Jul 2018 at 21:01

If they've ingested it or worse injected it I can't see how they could come back from that.

What I don't understand is how it was missed, Charles and Camilla went through that park, there's no way on earth they missed it. They were taking paving slabs up for goodness sake. Makes me wonder if it's been dumped relatively recently.

Jokester · 5 Jul 2018 at 21:12

I don't think they have any clue what the item is, or where they came into contact with it to be honest.

dowie · 5 Jul 2018 at 21:27

LOAM said:
What I don't understand is how it was missed, Charles and Camilla went through that park, there's no way on earth they missed it. They were taking paving slabs up for goodness sake. Makes me wonder if it's been dumped relatively recently.

Probably in some bushes/tress though perhaps away from any footpaths or route that the likes of Charles and Camilla would have been taking and therefore where a careful search would take place. They're going to be checking under paving slabs (if they can be moved) for the likes of IEDs etc.. they're not necessarily going to be doing a full rubbish sweep of the entire park.

StriderX · 5 Jul 2018 at 21:40

So... we should hire drug addicts instead of using an expensive CBRN team?

Damn, TIL.

dowie · 5 Jul 2018 at 21:44

StriderX said:
So... we should hire drug addicts instead of using an expensive CBRN team?

Damn, TIL.

It works for Glastonbury Festival!

Yadda · 5 Jul 2018 at 21:53

LOAM said:
If they've ingested it or worse injected it I can't see how they could come back from that.

What I don't understand is how it was missed, Charles and Camilla went through that park, there's no way on earth they missed it. They were taking paving slabs up for goodness sake. Makes me wonder if it's been dumped relatively recently.

Are you sure Charles & Camilla walked through the same park the latest victims visited (Queen Elizabeth Gardens)?

It is not the same park as where the Skripals were found (The Maltings Park).

Minusorange · 5 Jul 2018 at 22:07

Here's a thought

The smack heads burgled the spy's safe house which he had abandoned months ago so they thought it was a house perfect for breaking into and seeing if there was anything worth stealing, left accidentally by the spy was some Novichok in a container which they decided to take and inject because they're smack heads therefore morons capable of doing such a thing

Tefal · 5 Jul 2018 at 22:08

Well the initial suspicion of it being taintes heroin or crack didn't come from nowhere.

Loves Love Island said:
The reporting now mentions it is thought to have been a vial or syringe "because of their lifestyle" - is that a polite way of pointing out that they are a couple of smack heads?

Yadda · 5 Jul 2018 at 22:19

Minusorange said:
Here's a thought

The smack heads burgled the spy's safe house which he had abandoned months ago so they thought it was a house perfect for breaking into and seeing if there was anything worth stealing, left accidentally by the spy was some Novichok in a container which they decided to take and inject because they're smack heads therefore morons capable of doing such a thing

I'm not sure even Keith Richards could mainline Novichock and not show symptoms until the next day.

Edit: Now hearing (I've been away from the news all day so this may be old news) that it's been confirmed that the latest victims "found a contaminated item". I remember hearing yesterday that a bin outside one of their homes was of interest to Police, I wonder if they took the item home? All very grim.

Minusorange · 5 Jul 2018 at 22:22

Yadda said:
I'm not sure even Keith Richards could mainline Novichock and not show symptoms until the next day.

Maybe it's just something they stole hoping to sell at a later date for some more smack ?

I'm more puzzled how a bunch of smack heads live in what seems like a nice area