Former Russian double agent seriously ill in Salisbury.

Minusorange said:
Maybe it's just something they stole hoping to sell at a later date for some more smack ?

I'm more puzzled how a bunch of smack heads live in what seems like a nice area
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Don't be too hard on them. Even well-off folk fall foul of the stuff. It's apparently very moreish.

Edit: Lots about this again on Newsnight. Worth doing the old "restart programme" on iPlayer.
 
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Yadda said:
Are you sure Charles & Camilla walked through the same park the latest victims visited (Queen Elizabeth Gardens)?

It is not the same park as where the Skripals were found (The Maltings Park).
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I think you're right, looking closer than the screaming headlines they were at the guildhall a couple of hundred metres away from this Park and not actually in the park. It's still somewhat odd it was missed during the sweep though so the point regarding it being recently dumped (or as above taken from a house) is, whilst speculation still plausible.
 
LOAM said:
I think you're right, looking closer than the screaming headlines they were at the guildhall a couple of hundred metres away from this Park and not actually in the park. It's still somewhat odd it was missed during the sweep though so the point regarding it being recently dumped (or as above taken from a house) is, whilst speculation still plausible.
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but it isn't particularly odd, especially if they weren't even going to visit that park
 
LOAM said:
I think you're right, looking closer than the screaming headlines they were at the guildhall a couple of hundred metres away from this Park and not actually in the park. It's still somewhat odd it was missed during the sweep though so the point regarding it being recently dumped (or as above taken from a house) is, whilst speculation still plausible.
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I take your point but a couple of hundred metres (about 300 metres I believe is the distance from the "Lizzy Gardens" to the Guild Hall) is quite a radius. It wouldn't have been possible or neccessary to search and area that large at the level of detail needed to find, for example, a contaminated syringe, ahead of their visit.

They visited other places in Salisbury on the day too, it would have been a mammoth task to comb such a huge area in such detail.
 
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Jokester said:
Seems some people have been watching RT again lol.
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Youre joking, thats just government propaganda, infowars has the real truth..... I'm just here to read Danny75s posts, they're highly entertaining :D

Does anyone care about two smack heads? Did anyone see the "friend" talking to BBC? he looks like the kind of people that hang around outside boots all day wasting taxpayers money.
 
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Moses said:
Will be interesting if the contaminated items provide any further evidence/indication of origin/other physical evidence/etc, or if it leads to them being able to identify someone in that area at the time. I understand that ordinarily the cctv might be gone, but in this instance they may have just gathered everything regardless of cost! Obviously if there is any evidence the conspiracy theorists will say it’s all made up, but hey-ho!
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Hopefully there might be a whole load more CCTV footage for them to look over with this new location. Assuming it hasn't all been wiped/overwritten.
 
Screeeech said:
Doesn't stand up for one second. In today's world members of the government can't even have an affair, or look at porn on their PC (Damien Green) without it being leaked and turned into a national story - to think they can just casually pull this sort of thing off, is tantamount to impossible, it doesn't stand up for a second and never has.
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For some reason you haven't understood. I'll repeat - they are briefed and do as they are told. They aren't running the show or writing the script. So there's nothing outwardly conspiratorial about the government "taking the advice of the experts". It's quite easy to steer politicians that have no qualms about going with what they feel will be popular, instead of determining the truth, isn't it? Look at the reaction to May's statement on March 12th in the Commons. Right, there's the truth, now nobody say anything different or question it. With it involving chemical weapons and few experts on the subject, it's even easier. None of them know anything about it, but being politicians, don't want to admit ignorance by questioning the experts. Thing is, they don't get direct access to the experts, or all the experts, either. Only what's filtered through to them.

Do you get daily briefs about ongoing operations in MI5 through media/other source?

Did you get the transcripts of the Cobra meetings where spy chiefs will have briefed the cabinet on best course of action/reaction?

Or do you just get what they want the public to believe through the public relations people (politicians) who know nothing about chemical weapons or the full extent of Sergei Skripal's activities, like the majority of us?

Hope you get my point now, so you can choose to agree or disagree with what I'm actually saying, instead of continuing to argue that the government couldn't be writing the script or conspiring because they'd be caught out by media, which is neither here nor there.


Screeeech said:
Put it this way; If you hated Russia so much, were in possession of Novichok and wanted to cause a false flag attack, with the intention of making Russia look very bad, causing serious implications and a major incident - why just attempt to kill a former spy and his daughter? It would make far more sense to poison 500 people to death randomly, that would do the job far more effectively than just killing a former spy.. That would wreck everything.
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First of all, how did it turn out? Does Russia look good in your eyes? Did it not cause serious implications? Was it not a major incident?

Secondly, too many people, or children, and someone might object and spill the beans. It would be very risky, even if none of the required handful of players voiced objections, because they might inwardly object, keep it to themselves, and then leak the intended plan so that it wouldn't happen.

If Sergei was planning on switching sides (again), someone else would have reason to target him and send a message to others. Or if he was the, or one of the, Russian sources, that Christopher Steele obtained information from for that Trump dossier. Or if he was investigating Russian mafia operations in the UK (which would make both Russian mafia and any UK collaborators/beneficiaries, suspects).

You wish to believe Putin ordered it is likelier. Cool. You may even be right. It's just not the only possibility, no matter how much you want to narrow it down to Putin.
 
Moses said:
Will be interesting if the contaminated items provide any further evidence/indication of origin/other physical evidence/etc, or if it leads to them being able to identify someone in that area at the time. I understand that ordinarily the cctv might be gone, but in this instance they may have just gathered everything regardless of cost! Obviously if there is any evidence the conspiracy theorists will say it’s all made up, but hey-ho!
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Yes, I was thinking the same. Potentially it could be an extremely valuable piece of evidence.
 
Moses said:
Will be interesting if the contaminated items provide any further evidence/indication of origin/other physical evidence/etc, or if it leads to them being able to identify someone in that area at the time. I understand that ordinarily the cctv might be gone, but in this instance they may have just gathered everything regardless of cost! Obviously if there is any evidence the conspiracy theorists will say it’s all made up, but hey-ho!
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No doubt plenty of people would believe it's rather convenient that with an apparent lack of progress in the investigation, two heroin users help out by handing them the delivery mechanism, falling victim to Novichok for further proof that it was the delivery mechanism, and four months after no other victims and during the World Cup in Russia.


Johno please? said:
Does anyone care about two smack heads?
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The intended reaction, I'd suggest.
 
I am finding it hard to think of any credible reason, if the original poisoning was done by a Russian assassin, why he or she (or they...) would just drop the container or contaminated packaging in a public place. A friend is adamant it's the work of some loose cannon from Porton Down. Me? I'm more worried about the pub running out of CO2 this weekend and what mischief is being worked at Chequers today :)
 
Chris Wilson said:
I am finding it hard to think of any credible reason, if the original poisoning was done by a Russian assassin, why he or she (or they...) would just drop the container or contaminated packaging in a public place. A friend is adamant it's the work of some loose cannon from Porton Down. Me? I'm more worried about the pub running out of CO2 this weekend and what mischief is being worked at Chequers today :)
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The NYTimes has cited a friend of the victim saying he's a "skip diver" often rummaging through rubbish looking for useful discarded items.
 
Moses said:
If, in the first instance, they just collected as much cctv evidence as possible and then later looked at the stuff they had reason to and archived the rest.
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Yeah I guess they've got plenty of footage from the area around the original incident but they're not necessarily going to have it for say every shop etc.. in this different area, probably relying on hoping it hasn't been wiped yet. Perhaps they'll have had the foresight to get any public CCTV data across the county though.

Chris Wilson said:
I am finding it hard to think of any credible reason, if the original poisoning was done by a Russian assassin, why he or she (or they...) would just drop the container or contaminated packaging in a public place.
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Boris approaches the house early in the morning, deploys the nerve agent while pretending to make a delivery then walks away, Vlad is watching from a distance and now needs to wait... he sees the Skripals leave... there he goes, touching the door handle, success...Vlad leaves too now. They're not using mobile phones for obvious reasons so they head to their rendezvous in the park, perhaps they meet a third person and confirm the deployment of the nerve agent, Boris throws the container/device used into some bushes, it will degrade over time anyway, and they head for the airport.

Just like in the movies... :)
 
What a time for the twisty-puzzle lube I ordered from China to arrive. 3ml vials ffs. :(

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Chris Wilson said:
I am finding it hard to think of any credible reason, if the original poisoning was done by a Russian assassin, why he or she (or they...) would just drop the container or contaminated packaging in a public place. A friend is adamant it's the work of some loose cannon from Porton Down. Me? I'm more worried about the pub running out of CO2 this weekend and what mischief is being worked at Chequers today :)
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They probably wouldn't have wanted to be carrying it for any longer than absolutely necessary, especially once they'd actually used the poison ;)
The containers for example would probably have been perfectly safe to carry until opened, then you've got something that is probably nasty on it's own, but much worse when mixed, so you don't want to have that on you for potentially hours, you want to dump it ASAP.

Also whoever applied the poison would not have been able to wear much in the way of proper protection as it would have made them stand out, so most likely some sort of gloves and a jacket*/trousers chosen to offer some level of protection against splashes but wouldn't stand out (and in the case of a jacket, something they could dump fast if needed).


*I think one of the experts mentioned that a leather coat (and thus presumably leather gloves) would be a good inconspicuous protective garment in regards to splashes for a short time.
 
Danny75 said:
Maybe. Or maybe now you understand why arguing that the only alternative was for Boris or Theresa to come up with this was a bit foolish.
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Actually I’m just pointing out that all the conspiracy theory nonsense you’ve been peddling, is just nonsense.
 
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