Former Russian double agent seriously ill in Salisbury.

I guess it's just a weird coincidence that people who oppose Putin end up dead in mysterious circumstances.

Article from 2017:

Last Thursday, Denis Voronenkov, a former Russian lawmaker who had fled to Ukraine and become a strident critic of Russian President Vladimir Putin, was shot dead on a Kiev sidewalk in broad daylight. A few days earlier, Voronenkov had told The Washington Post that he and his wife knew they were in danger. "For our personal safety, we can't let them know where we are," he said. "The system has lost its mind. They say we are traitors in Russia."

...Voronenkov is one of a handful of Putin critics and Russian diplomats who have died suddenly and sometimes mysteriously in the past few months. "I have an impression — I hope it's only an impression — that the practice of killing political opponents has started spreading in Russia," Gennady Gudkov, a former Russian lawmaker and security services officer, told The Moscow Times.
Click to expand...

(Source).
 
Danny75 said:
Also interesting is the FCO's reply to the allegations by Murray:
Click to expand...
who actually made this reply ? I cannot find reference anyhwere other than his site - (discredited Boris ?)

If you listen to his R5 interview, first time I have heard Murray speaking - comes over as a raving conspiracy theoriest - in particular
accusation of BBC as state propaganda
reference to May as 'milking it'
repeated use of phrasee 'it's obvious' where he has no proof
flippant comparison of "..of a type developed by Russia" to brands of vodka

so - away - from the well-honed words on his blog - comical

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09v5vgh ~ 10:00



edit : afterthought will opcw not be obliged to give russia a sample for one of their labs
 
Evangelion said:
Craig Murray is a hilarious nonsense peddler.
Click to expand...

It is interesting that Russia seem adamant that they didn't develop Novichoks, yet in the same breath then accuse the UK and USA for developing them due to Russian scientists seeking refuge and taking the research with them.

What?

I think Russia have taken on a disinformation war they will struggle to win this time, underestimated either the UKs ability to detect the agent or the international response, they will either have to drop out of international agreements which would automatically make them guilty or allow the inspectorate in.
 
Well i am a little late to this thread and will admit i have not read it all so if someone has already mentioned it i am sorry. Anyway me and my brother in-law have been discussing this over the weekend and he has an interesting theory that it is not Russia but the EU. His points where something along the lines of the EU need a big bad neighbour after the Ukraine and this attack pointing the blame on Russia. The EU now have the fear they need to convince everyone they need an EU army. Also with this fear, people are unlikely to want their nation to leave the EU. All of the Italy situation has disappeared, well at least from our media. With this they would also hope that we see their point of view and don't leave either, due to strength in numbers. Now what do Russia gain from this attack? Considering the election and that they holding the World cup? He had lots of other points but these where his main ones.
Now for me the whole situation is very odd and i no longer know who to believe? Guess that is a good thing as i will question it all. I would like to think that our government have the resources to be able detect who, when the Nerve agent was made and that the intelligence services have good the relative information to allow us to say what we have already. If not we will look very silly on the world stage if it is proven that it was not Russia.
 
Last edited:
^Seriously, I think Putin is so arrogant and deluded by now that he sees the EU & the US as mere minions. I think he somehow thinks it's makes him look all powerful in the eyes of the Russian people(trying to be their hero etc), by assassinating spies. RT were pumping out of kinds of stuff on their channel about it. But then treason is a serious crime and we would at least jail people for it.
 
inflames said:
Well i am a little late to this thread and will admit i have not read it all so if someone has already mentioned it i am sorry. Anyway me and my brother in-law have been discussing this over the weekend and he has an interesting theory that it is not Russia but the EU. His points where something along the lines of the EU need a big bad neighbour after the Ukraine and this attack pointing the blame on Russia. The EU now have the fear they need to convince everyone they need an EU army. Also with this fear, people are unlikely to want their nation to leave the EU. All of the Italy situation has disappeared, well at least from our media. With this they would also hope that we see their point of view and don't leave either, due to strength in numbers. Now what do Russia gain from this attack? Considering the election and that they holding the World cup? He had lots of other points but these where his main ones.
Now for me the whole situation is very odd and i no longer know who to believe? Guess that is a good thing as i will question it all.
Click to expand...

If the EU wanted a big bad neighbour in the form of Russian they didn't need to set anything up. I guess things will be a little clearer once the independent analysis of the samples is complete, but no matter the results I think the same arguments and rhetoric will continue.
 
KillBoY_UK said:
If the EU wanted a big bad neighbour in the form of Russian they didn't need to set anything up. I guess things will be a little clearer once the independent analysis of the samples is complete, but no matter the results I think the same arguments and rhetoric will continue.
Click to expand...

I agree, once we have those results hopefully it will all become clearer. Russia have been known to be a thorn in the west side for decades now. They like to do things their way and don't care how its done.
 
I've not perticuarly followed this story, but what evidence have our government actual gained to prove conclusively that this had anything to do with the russian government?
 
I think the best way to filter the events is through time, to see what was the actual result of all of this.

Right now we saw that both the UK and Russia expelled diplomats/spies. We see that the second Russian (friend of Berezovskiy) died under suspicious circumstances, yet the UK government does not pay particular attention to that story, if this was a conspiracy of the UK and allies to blame and isolate Russia further, then this second death would have been exploited through the media and heavy political rhetoric. So unless this event causes massive geopolitical change (such as Nord Stream 2 cancellation or disconnect Russia from SWIFT) then it is safe to say that the simplest explanation is the most likely.

If this is indeed the end and the UK will not extend retaliatory measures then by all means it is a confirmation that it was Russian state approved operation to kill a turncoat (whether it was botched up or intentionally sloppy is another hard question, I think it was just botched up, Litvenenko one was sloppy as well, whilst other Russian deaths were more inconspicuous, of course I think the British government or at least MI6 were always aware that the Russian government is killing these people, the government just doesn't care much for it unless actual British civilians are involved).
 
Tbh I won't believe anything the government says as I still remember the whole build up for attacking Iraq after '9/11'. We were lied to 100's if not 1000's of times, lies of omission are lies too, to get us to attack Iraq and most people knew it was a lie.

This time it's going to be hard to disprove the narrative, but you only have to ask yourself who gains and who loses.. The gainers would be 'The west', NATO, Israel, America etc.. Russia loses on every metric, they would lose to sanctions, prince William not going to world cup(maybe not a loss after all), maybe even lose the world cup altogether, yet more international isolation.
 
antijoke said:
I know, but what about in Russia?
Click to expand...

Traveled lots in the EU, amount of official corruption exposed to 0.

Traveled a handful of times to either Russian influenced nations or Russia itself, times shaken down for cash by officials 3.

Just making yourself look stupid if you truly believe corruption is as rife in the EU as it is in the likes of Russia.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom