Former Russian double agent seriously ill in Salisbury.

jsmoke said:
Do we not get a lot of out gas/oil from Russia, what if they were to sanction us?
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How? We live on an island at the very end of a long gas pipeline that goes through numerous other countries. If they want to turn the pumps off for us, then they'll be turning them off for the majority of Western Europe.
 
Firestar_3x said:
Traveled lots in the EU, amount of official corruption exposed to 0.

Traveled a handful of times to either Russian influenced nations or Russia itself, times shaken down for cash by officials 3.

Just making yourself look stupid if you truly believe corruption is as rife in the EU as it is in the likes of Russia.
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Of course I am not being 100% serious, but I'm not stupid enough to think that our Government are not corrupt as well, it's obviously all on a scale.
 
hominid said:
Tbh I won't believe anything the government says as I still remember the whole build up for attacking Iraq after '9/11'. We were lied to 100's if not 1000's of times, lies of omission are lies too, to get us to attack Iraq and most people knew it was a lie.

This time it's going to be hard to disprove the narrative, but you only have to ask yourself who gains and who loses.. The gainers would be 'The west', NATO, Israel, America etc.. Russia loses on every metric, they would lose to sanctions, prince William not going to world cup(maybe not a loss after all), maybe even lose the world cup altogether, yet more international isolation.
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So what do you believe?
 
antijoke said:
Of course I am not being 100% serious, but I'm not stupid enough to think that our Government are not corrupt as well, it's obviously all on a scale.
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Just to be completely clear on this point, I know you would like to believe for what ever reason that Britain is as bad as Russia when it come's to cheating and corruption, but we aren't. It's no where close. We are ranked highly and a shining example of how to do things properly with a system of checks and balances and strict laws. There's nothing like that in Russia, it's basically a country run by criminals for criminals. This is a historical power structure that still exists from when Russia was part of the USSR.
 
KillBoY_UK said:
So what do you believe?
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In all honesty I don't know yet. Taking the position that the government has an agenda, and we don't need to know that agenda also, I can postulate that it's not what the government is telling us. I think it's yet more payback for helping Syria defeat 'ISIS', what ever they are, but the US/Israel/Saudi haven't given up yet.

Again, look at who wins and who loses, then you may have an idea who's behind it - Russia has nothing to gain and a lot to lose.
 
hominid said:
In all honesty I don't know yet. Taking the position that the government has an agenda, and we don't need to know that agenda also, I can postulate that it's not what the government is telling us. I think it's yet more payback for helping Syria defeat 'ISIS', what ever they are, but the US/Israel/Saudi haven't given up yet.

Again, look at who wins and who loses, then you may have an idea who's behind it - Russia has nothing to gain and a lot to lose.
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Putin looks "strong" to his people by saying 'traitors will kick the bucket' this happens no long before a election knowing what the reaction would be, looks strong against the west and strong to his people just before a election, and now he has been re elected again.

At best May gets a temporary distraction from brexit, I would far more beleave there was something more iffy go on on our side if this was out of the blue in a greater context and places like France and Germany who some what frosty with due to brexit wasn't also agreeing.
 
hominid said:
Russia has nothing to gain and a lot to lose.
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The population of Russia want the country to be great again, they have plenty of domestic issues which have been ignored for years, he was / is seeking the popular vote and wants to be in power with an increased percentage, Russia wants to be viewed as a country not to be messed with on the world stage since it is in decline and feels threatened by the West.

That took all of 10 seconds to think of.
 
Roar87 said:
Just to be completely clear on this point, I know you would like to believe for what ever reason that Britain is as bad as Russia when it come's to cheating and corruption, but we aren't. It's no where close. We are ranked highly and a shining example of how to do things properly with a system of checks and balances and strict laws. There's nothing like that in Russia, it's basically a country run by criminals for criminals. This is a historical power structure that still exists from when Russia was part of the USSR.
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As someone on here who does remember the USSR and the cold war, this statement rings so true. It is not so much that Russia was part of the USSR but that Russia owned the USSR. It was only when Gorbachev stopped backing Poland, East Germany et al that the USSR folded and the wall came down. Up until then they were all puppet states of Russia. It may not be Putin, but there are still some powerful elements in Russia that would like to see a return to the previous relationship with the west and see no downside to some deniable chaos.
 
pmc25 said:
FWIW, those I know who are associated with the intelligence community and foreign affairs in Whitehall, all are unanimous that the finger points to Russia ...
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Its obvious it points to Russia (who else would want to dispose of a former Russian agent/traitor? What would there be to gain? To try and spin it as a deliberate attempt by Porton Down to frame Putin would have to stretch to Russia Today lengths to try and convince anyone of that particular piece of nonsense)

The real question is how much is Putin involved? Its hard to imagine it'd be allowed to happen without his implicit approval or knowledge whether he ordered it directly or not.
 
Blackjack Davy said:
The real question is how much is Putin involved? Its hard to imagine it'd be allowed to happen without his implicit approval or knowledge whether he ordered it directly or not.
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That is the real question, he's got the tough guy image etc... but how in control is he. The alternate, perhaps more worrying, scenario is perhaps that behind the scenes he doesn't have full control and others have taken the decision to do this themselves.
 
dowie said:
That is the real question, he's got the tough guy image etc... but how in control is he. The alternate, perhaps more worrying, scenario is perhaps that behind the scenes he doesn't have full control and others have taken the decision to do this themselves.
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I would have thought that those in charge of many countries don't have direct control of their secret services. How far up the chain an assassination order would have to come from in Russia IDK...
 
d_brennen said:
I would have thought that those in charge of many countries don't have direct control of their secret services. How far up the chain an assassination order would have to come from in Russia IDK...
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You do know that Putin was appointed Director of the FSB by Yeltsin, right?
 
dowie said:
That is the real question, he's got the tough guy image etc... but how in control is he. The alternate, perhaps more worrying, scenario is perhaps that behind the scenes he doesn't have full control and others have taken the decision to do this themselves.
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This is what several Russian defectors have said, Putin is not in control anymore, which is obviously very worrying.
 
It's pretty obvious it isn't cohesive country, the issue really is if this is Putin's design or folly, if it's a wild bandit oligarchy, then it's rather difficult to assign actual blame. A lot of the time i feel like when Journalists get shot or politicians jailed, is mostly other people protecting Putin using their own initiative.

He literally doesn't need to do anything or order anything, still means complicity... not that it matters.
 
I was chatting to some Russian *internet friends* about the issue and they all believe it was Britain that did it and that it is so obvious how can anyone believe the opposite? Funny how it works...
 
NZXT30 said:
I was chatting to some Russian *internet friends* about the issue and they all believe it was Britain that did it and that it is so obvious how can anyone believe the opposite? Funny how it works...
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It's very possible for any other country to create the same thing, the original scientist published the formula in 2008, so it's out there.

For example, Iranian chemists synthesized five types of novichok in 2017, their signatures was added to the UN chemical weapons database.

-Just saying
 
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