Former Russian double agent seriously ill in Salisbury.

not convinced this was a significant backing ?; May could communicate to us, what additional arguments were presented to the other leaders

Out out out: At least five EU nations led by France are now ready to expel Russian spies and diplomats in response to the Salisbury attack, papers including the Times and the Guardian report. “All of us, we are considering such measures,” Lithuanian President Dalia Grybauskaitė said. The first step last night saw the EU withdraw its ambassador to Moscow for four weeks of “consultation.” Dutch PM Mark Rutte added that over the coming days, “we and our partners must see what the logical next steps are.”

UNITED WE STAND: U.K. officials here in Brussels are upbeat this morning ...
The Council “agrees with the U.K. government’s assessment that it is highly likely the Russian Federation is responsible and that there is no plausible alternative explanation,” the 28-nation bloc said in a beefed-up statement. “We stand in unqualified solidarity with the U.K. in the face of this grave challenge to our shared security.”
...
Inside the room II: The key concessions were hammered out over an epic seven-hour dinner in the EU’s gleaming new Europa building, where leaders dined on pan-fried scallops with artichokes followed by rack of lamb and then iced lemon parfait. The section on Russia was opened with a speech by May and lasted more than four hours.
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(need an inside man for the now eating thread)


I had not appreciated that there are some accusations that Israel had poisoned Arafat with nuclear material
(new book referenced from above link Rise and Kill First )
 
Wonder if any of the tin foil hats are slipping this morning. Or are the entirety of the eu now in on it too?
 
The Greeks are still reticent, like Dis86,
Merkel said EU leaders would now await the verdict of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons on samples provided by Britain.
“We’re determined to act in unity, through our words but also possibly through further measures,” she said.

Greek diplomats this week initially resisted the push by the U.K. for tougher language condemning Russia, saying they wanted clearer evidence of the Kremlin’s culpability. That was a line picked up by Tsipras on his way into the summit: “I think we will have to express our solidarity to the U.K., the British people. But at the same time we need to investigate … I think that we have to be very responsible on that issue.”
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is there any schedule on opcw results - seems it was on a couple of weeks for Syria
but then what when they confirm agent ?
 
  • i) CC: Porton Down Chemical and Biological Analyst
    Blood samples from Sergei Skripal and Yulia Skripal were analysed and the
    findings indicated exposure to a nerve agent or related compound. The samples
    tested positive for the presence of a Novichok class nerve agent OR CLOSELY RELATED AGENT.

The emphasis is mine. This sworn Court evidence direct from Porton Down is utterly incompatible with what Boris Johnson has been saying. The truth is that Porton Down have not even positively identified this as a “Novichok”, as opposed to “a closely related agent”. Even if it were a “Novichok” that would not prove manufacture in Russia, and a “closely related agent” could be manufactured by literally scores of state and non-state actors.

This constitutes irrefutable evidence that the government have been straight out lying – to Parliament, to the EU, to NATO, to the United Nations, and above all to the people – about their degree of certainty of the origin of the attack. It might well be an attack originating in Russia, but there are indeed other possibilities and investigation is needed. As the government has sought to whip up jingoistic hysteria in advance of forthcoming local elections, the scale of the lie has daily increased.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/boris-johnson-a-categorical-liar/
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given the new recommendation to destroy dry cleanable clothing and taking the bench ... have they misunderstood the agent ?
interesting too
Did the Mossad kill a Russian general for peddling deadly nerve agent to Syria?
yesterday https://www.thestar.com.my/news/wor...-destroying-suspected-syrian-reactor-in-2007/
but i suppose it is far fetched for Israel to be implicated to ensure continuing ostracization of Russia.

I have some sympathy for this below comment - verbatim
is what we see diversionary whilst they track the human culprits whilst the trail is warm.

All this is a highly professionally staged show for housewives and people alike who are ready to swallow whatever they are given without ever scrutinizing and analyzing what they are stuffed with. Scary fibs of highly-toxic military purpose nerve agent meant for mass killings, but somehow skillfully and pointedly used only on a couple of people – the Skripals and a police officer – doesn’t it sound too far-fetched and ridiculous? Has anyone seen at least a picture – if not a video – of the Skripals and the police officer in any of the UK hospitals? Why aren’t their relatives appearing anywhere on TV and making alarming statements of their critical state? Where are the sobs and cries so enjoyed by the BBC channels to make the picture even gloomier? Are they classified too? Why don’t they show the half-recovered police officer to us to back up their accusations? Why is the nerve agent itself is a top secret matter? And why do the brits refuse to share a sample of it with Russia, if they really want to find out the truth and investigate the case? And the most ridiculous to my mind is this video – a bunch of people in ridiculously looking toxic bright costumes are pottering about the ‘highly dangerous’ place, as they claim, like some astronauts on the moon, while just a few meters away police officers and other idle onlookers are clustering together wearing simple clothes and uniforms not meant to protect from any volatile deathly substances. Another strangeness is that they have already been doing it for 3 weeks and it has occurred to them only now to remove the bench from the place. What did they wait for? For the wind to spread the chemical off the bench around the place? Seems, they have been collecting the soil from the place at a grain per day in a slow motion. Wasn’t it a more effective way to just cut out some turf with the soil for further examining at a special laboratory – by the way not far from the place of the alleged poisoning???
It all looks like an ongoing spy soap to scare the ordinary people out of their wits and spoil relationship with Russia to divert people’s attention from the Brexit-related fiasco of the government and to appoint Russia guilty of all possible sins ever in the world. Never in my life have I heard such a brazen bold and boorish behavior of the UK top leaders! It’s simply outrageous
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True.

This is from the BBC interview, see the wording used by the officials there.

“We would not be allowed to operate if we had lack of control that could result in anything leaving the four walls of our facility here. There’s no way that agent would have left. We have complete confidence that nothing could have come from here out into the wider world.”
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So they do have the agent in Porton Down......
Also

http://www.dw.com/en/boris-johnson-...ripal-case-is-increasingly-bizarre/a-43043873

So Boris, hints, if not confirms, that DSTL has stocks of the agent, when he was asked if DSTL has any samples to compare the collected evidence, and he replied "They do".

jpaul said:
The Greeks are still reticent, like Dis86,
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Dis86 said:
Have a look at who some of the main investors in the Greek economy are
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If people remove their heads of the UK news "sand", will find out that Greece & Cyprus going against Russia on the back of everything that is happening in Aegean and SE Med would be madness.
Both countries have to deal with their sovereignty and existence (in case of Cyprus) against the Turks right now.

The case is ongoing for months, but nobody reported anything here, hell they didn't said anything about the condemnation to Turkey the EU Council announced this Friday, and was signed by May also!

Even the USA ambassador in Athens announced yesterday that the US won't do anything proactive to stop the war like they did in 1996 (i was in the army then).

You cry about Russian aggression (laughable), but Russia didn't start naval & air military operations just 6nm off the coast of Kent at spot notice (that happens tomorrow by Turkey in central Aegean).
Neither stopped UK from drilling in the North Sea, or declared NAVTEX over Isle of Man or Guernsey including the ground of the island itself. Nor Putin came out today (Saturday) saying that they will spill blood both theirs and others, to rebuild the Ottoman Empire.

So there are more important things going around, than the wimps of some who have a pretty damn good record of falsifying facts to start wars.
(Iraq, Libya, Syria are good examples)
 
jpaul said:
given the new recommendation to destroy dry cleanable clothing and taking the bench ... have they misunderstood the agent ?
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Panos said:
So they do have the agent in Porton Down......
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I meant the chemical/agent is not what they thought, which explain these additional cleanup actions ....
if the samples reveal it stays dormant in clothing for a long time, unlike VX, or opcw said they messed up, then they should say so,
(... even though they are paying out for the clothing ... so folks will not be reluctant to dispose of it)
 
Panos said:
True.

This is from the BBC interview, see the wording used by the officials there.



So they do have the agent in Porton Down......
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Certainly interesting that he focuses on nothing getting out (sod's law dictates it will at some point - in fact, such supreme belief that it cannot, is worse than retaining some doubt), and not on denying they had the agent already.

Major three-week chemical exercise in Salisbury either began or ended (not sure) on March 6th: https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-a...-for-royal-marines-in-major-chemical-exercise

Johnson says Porton Down were "absolutely categorical". However, in the recent court ruling granting the right to take samples from the Skripals, PD's position is rather: "Novichok OR closely related agent". PD also made no claim that it could only be Russian. So the narrative is coming from elsewhere. Porton Down are being used as "a source" to add some authority to this narrative. And they are not being accurately quoted by the politicians because their true opinion is not categorical enough for the narrative.
 
The narrative for this looks worse and worse as time goes on - very similar to the dodgy dossier for getting us into the Iraq war..

Either prove it, you've had long enough, or not - they just need to stop the slow drip drip of hollow, and misleading, information.

That court ruling information is quiet damning, it look like they still don't know what the substance is, or haven't proved it definitively. In which case, stop trying to start a war with Russia, which you will not win(there are no winners in wars except the banks!), but buffoon Boris is too thick to understand(or is he) - I'm now certain he's a shill, for who I don't know yet.
 
Danny75 said:
However, in the recent court ruling granting the right to take samples from the Skripals, PD's position is rather: "Novichok OR closely related agent".
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That court ruling does not necessitate (and we don't know the timeline) identifying what the substance is only the class of it - I've not looked at what range of samples have been taken - if more specifics are needed the court will ask for them - I wouldn't hold too much by that court application alone. Though other information seems a bit scarce as to other samples at this time.
 
so, per the earlier comment, there are no (known about) relatives attending their bed-side who could have given authorisation for the blood samples ?
that represents a dilema for Putin, he could take capital from them attending.
Because Mr Skripal and Ms Skripal are unconscious and neither are in a position to consent to the taking of further blood samples for these purposes or to the disclosure of their medical records Salisbury NHS Foundation Trust have quite properly confirmed to the UK Government that a court order would be required to authorise (a) and (b) above.
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Equally no announcement yet of

A source added that US officials were coordinating a united response with Europe, where countries including Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and the Czech Republic are expected to expel Russian officials on Monday.
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... the clock is ticking .... will Mr Corbyn (can he prudently) ask for an update on wednesdays PMQs.
 
That is a high stakes game then - backing the hypothesis that Russia are responsible,
but maybe the USA has had additional info from May.
 
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