Former Russian double agent seriously ill in Salisbury.

[sideways14a]

Not just the US though, looks like a lot in Europe will be going.
Big change this, Putin aint gonna be happy (good)

 

[jpaul]

An interesting measure I have never seen discussed are visa restrictions on Russians travelling to Eu/Usa ?

 

[Marmot]

Those in this thread saying this is another WMD ploy - just because you haven't seen any evidence yet doesn't mean that others haven't. Clearly something pretty damning has been shown to warrant today's coordinated explusions.

 

[StriderX]

Those in this thread saying this is another WMD ploy - just because you haven't seen any evidence yet doesn't mean that others haven't. Clearly something pretty damning has been shown to warrant today's coordinated explusions.

If it was clear the EU wouldn't have specifically said "most likely". It costs nothing to remove diplomats in reality, in Trumps case it was rather lackluster, looked a lot like bluster and image to me than actually caring about it (probably more focused on gutting the government, hiring warmongers and hiding from the investigation that's likely to have him in Federal prison). For the EU, it's just to show it's expectations towards a NATO partner, even if they barely fund it.

There's a lot of **** in the news lately, i can barely breath as it is with how mediocre it all is.

 

[Efour]

Took a long time but countries are waking up.

I'm actually surprised.

 

[jpaul]

The French/German tally of 4 does not seem many - what percentage is that ?
will be interesting to see Mays demeanor, hopefully will not be self-righteous / triumphant, and address how the investigation is proceeding.
Boris couldn not restrain himself twitter

Clearly something pretty damning has been shown to warrant today's coordinated explusions.

does not seem so many, and would they have really shown confidential information to all those 'allies', without disclosing something to electorate ?

 

[Firestar_3x]

Does not seem so many, and would they have really shown confidential information to all those 'allies', without disclosing something to electorate ?

Erm they will share confidential information daily between allies on multiple security issues

 

[Werewolf]

The French/German tally of 4 does not seem many - what percentage is that ?
will be interesting to see Mays demeanor, hopefully will not be self-righteous / triumphant, and address how the investigation is proceeding.
Boris couldn not restrain himself twitter


does not seem so many, and would they have really shown confidential information to all those 'allies', without disclosing something to electorate ?

Yes they share information on large numbers of things on a regular basis, and most of it is never shown to the electorate because it's sensitive or may disclose sources and methods.

They often don't even share the information with the full government, just those that are in positions to need to know it to make decisions (the PM will know more than individual cabinet members, the cabinet members know more than than the general MP's, and the MP's likely know more than the electorate).

 

[jpaul]

the Ukraine is neither in the EU nor NATO afaik

 

[Danny75]

Excellent discussion with former BBC Salisbury reporter for those who prefer real intelligence, instead of being told "we have intelligence (you don't)" and "We know more than you do, now ignore the fact we are all liars and crooks."

 

[Rroff]

the Ukraine is neither in the EU nor NATO afaik

I'd have to look it up but not in but has some agreement with NATO over the nuclear disarmament.

Which has some interesting implications if a nuclear armed state attacks them :s

 

[hominid]

the Ukraine is neither in the EU nor NATO afaik

The Ukraine was annexed with the help of the US, and installed a US friendly government, with some even being US nationals - most notably being Natalie Jaresko(us national) as finance minister!

 

[Malevolence]

I've done my part. I stole the loot from some abusive Russians in EVE earlier.

 

[Rroff]

I've done my part. I stole the loot from some abusive Russians in EVE earlier.

Eve is a fascinating place to look at the Russian v West mindset in a Petri dish. ~5 years or so back basically saw WW3, sans either side having nukes, played out in wormhole space as well.

 

[Marmot]

Excellent discussion with former BBC Salisbury reporter for those who prefer real intelligence, instead of being told "we have intelligence (you don't)" and "We know more than you do, now ignore the fact we are all liars and crooks."

10mins in and still haven't heard any discussion, or any reason to doubt what we've been told. Just a history lesson about Salisbury by some bloke who 'worked in Salisbury' between 92 and 94.

 

[Marmot]

"I have no love for Porton Down because I was brought up in Swanage and I was speaking to someone who told me that Porton Down was involved in spraying live bacteria in the bay, and when I was a child I had frequent chest infections, and of course I don't know if there's any connection there but I do wonder..." - "Well it could be couldn't it!"

Yes this is very convincing indeed I'm sold

 

[Danny75]

You’re going to have to highlight the key parts

Open vid on youtube and click "Show More".

if you expect anyone to listen to that. An hour long ffs, with the sell so far being, ‘lol here’s the real truth, wake up sheeple’ .

I expect anyone who has decided they aren't getting anything of substance from the government and mainstream media but is interested in the case, to find it informative.

Why are so many countries standing with us if it’s not true? They’ve been shown the evidence and decided the Russians are likely to be the culprits.

How do you know they've been shown any evidence? This expelling diplomat circus reminds me of Eurovision's history of mostly ignoring actual musical quality and awarding points based on politics instead. "Deux Points - Deux Diplomates. Dix Points - Dix Diplomates."

What would truth have to do with a political decision, when the police are saying the investigation could continue until summer, the OPCW will take weeks to complete their examination, and the UK government keeps spinning a mixture of "highly likely" and "absolutely categorical", and "nobody else has it" except some bloody well do, etc etc.

10mins in and still haven't heard any discussion, or any reason to doubt what we've been told. Just a history lesson about Salisbury by some bloke who 'worked in Salisbury' between 92 and 94.

I guess you missed the part around 9 minutes where he recounts how Porton Down asked soldiers to volunteer for an experiment where they'd wear chemical suits and be perfectly safe wearing them, but then introduced a substance (likely LSD or similar) that made them all laugh and take their suits off which they had been warned not to do. Nice way to avoid being legally responsible, if you have no qualms about treating your own as guinea pigs.

"I have no love for Porton Down because I was brought up in Swanage and I was speaking to someone who told me that Porton Down was involved in spraying live bacteria in the bay, and when I was a child I had frequent chest infections, and of course I don't know if there's any connection there but I do wonder..." - "Well it could be couldn't it!"

Yes this is very convincing indeed I'm sold

This is a good demonstration of how to willfully ignore the actual meat of the content, including nit-picking an off-the-cuff remark by the presenter (not the invited guest), to reinforce an existing viewpoint that one does not wish to give up.

From 1945 to 1989, Porton exposed more than 3,400 human "guinea pigs" to nerve gas. It seems probable that Porton has tested more human subjects with nerve gas, for the longest period of time, than any other scientific establishment in the world.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2004/may/06/science.research

 

[Hagar]

While I do not welcome escalation in tension in international relations, I am pleased that some countries have stood up to Putin and Russia in this case. They may have taken the opportunity to get rid of known spies in their own countries, but to act in a multilateral manner in this instance is good and will be beneficial in my opinion. For too long Russia has acted against good international relations and this needs pointing to them out even if they do retaliate in kind.

 

[jpaul]

(so EVE's a computer game ... I have never watched Ant&Deck either )

the Ukraine is neither in the EU nor NATO afaik

I made that comment implying that we would not be sharing very confidential information with them, but they ejected a diplomat anyway.

so yes, I agree with Danny's point

How do you know they've been shown any evidence?

even the BBC @6pm, as well as well as the stupid triumphalist eurovision style score-card & commentary, suggested the eviction(lol) was for the cumulative bad behaviour, not exclusively Nerve gas ie....
(Ukraine, cyber-wars) Kasperky did nothing, Western players(Zuck, Cambridge Analytica) are just as implicated in Trumps election as the Russians, Nigel farage and his mates also possibly implicated in the Brexit vote facebook manipulation.

For previous terrorism/attrocities we, electorate, have had a lot more information , by T+3weeks.
.. why would the UK not make political capital from delivering a sample to Russia, if they are holding back because Russia would undesirably learn about our analysis techniques .. (most of the electorate) are grown-ups, so tell us.


has anyone got access to the new scientist article
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...ountries-could-have-made-russian-nerve-agent/

 

[Rroff]

(so EVE's a computer game ... I have never watched Ant&Deck either )

One of the few games that the player base actually exists in one instance with 1000s of active players and a persistent landscape where territory can be captured and held long term and so on.

Over the years it has at times become heavily defined by West versus Russian alliances, etc. and in many respects mirrored the real world with very different adoption of tactics and approach.