Former Russian double agent seriously ill in Salisbury.

Minusorange · 14 Apr 2018 at 18:07

dowie said:
doesn't seem like that at all, seems like the West made sure to carefully avoid any Russian forces last night and strike very specific Syrian targets, related to chemical weapons in direct response to the chemical attack.
It makes no sense because it is a false premise.

You must be living on a different planet

Russia allegedly poisoned a spy on UK soil, they deny this say they have evidence which says UK is trying to provoke, UK says the opposite
Assad allegedly used a chemical attack on his people, Russia and Syria both deny this, UK+France+US all say the opposite and say they have evidence

One side is lying, one side is telling the truth, the lying side seems to be pushing and pushing to provoke the opposite into some form of military action aka war

I have no idea who is lying or who is telling the truth, I just know both sides can't be correct (unless it's a third party but unlikely)

How much "poking" must be done before one of the side reaches breaking point and declares war on the other because that's the path that is being laid out, if you can't see this then I don't know what to say but it's obvious there's a push for a war

Nasher · 14 Apr 2018 at 18:10

It's funny watching RT trying to make stuff up faster than information is coming out.

Rroff · 14 Apr 2018 at 18:12

Minusorange said:
I have no idea who is lying or who is telling the truth, I just know both sides can't be correct (unless it's a third party but unlikely)

Its also possible that both sides are incorrect.

Andy_82 · 14 Apr 2018 at 18:13

Danny75 said:
I already read the OPCW report. The elephant in the living room to note, which the Russians will be asking the OPCW about, is why the Swiss lab findings were not mentioned in the final report.

Where is the source/evidence for this? I read the summary and nowhere is this mentioned. I cannot find a leaked report so unless i've missed something this is just speculation.

Danny75 · 14 Apr 2018 at 18:19

Andy_82 said:
Where is the source/evidence for this?

The Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, as reported by RT (and now by The Mirror and others).

Andy_82 said:
I read the summary and nowhere is this mentioned. I cannot find a leaked report so unless i've missed something this is just speculation.

Lavrov would not make such a claim if it weren't true, when it will be very easy for the Swiss lab to confirm or deny it. No need to trust my word on that. Just wait and see.

Also, nobody said it was in the summary released to the public, or in the final report released to OPCW member states. What Lavrov is saying is that the Swiss conclusions were not included in the final report. And that their findings do not confirm the UK findings.

Rroff · 14 Apr 2018 at 18:21

Danny75 said:
Lavrov would not make such a claim if it weren't true

LOL

Bazzards · 14 Apr 2018 at 18:22

Who has that video of the Iraqi minister, "Nothing to see here"

Minusorange · 14 Apr 2018 at 18:26

Rroff said:
Its also possible that both sides are incorrect.

That's why I said possible third party but who has the resources and skill to pull something like this off ? Very few nations capable of it

dowie · 14 Apr 2018 at 18:41

Minusorange said:
You must be living on a different planet

Russia allegedly poisoned a spy on UK soil, they deny this say they have evidence which says UK is trying to provoke, UK says the opposite
Assad allegedly used a chemical attack on his people, Russia and Syria both deny this, UK+France+US all say the opposite and say they have evidence

One side is lying, one side is telling the truth, the lying side seems to be pushing and pushing to provoke the opposite into some form of military action aka war

I have no idea who is lying or who is telling the truth, I just know both sides can't be correct (unless it's a third party but unlikely)

How much "poking" must be done before one of the side reaches breaking point and declares war on the other because that's the path that is being laid out, if you can't see this then I don't know what to say but it's obvious there's a push for a war

And if you can't see why side is obviously lying given all the conflicting statements put out then it isn't surprising that you've got a bit of a warped view of it all. The fact that you've stated "it makes no sense" already might be a bit of a clue that you're starting with a false premise re: your assertion that war between Russia and the west is the intention of either.

Minusorange · 14 Apr 2018 at 18:53

dowie said:
And if you can't see why side is obviously lying given all the conflicting statements put out then it isn't surprising that you've got a bit of a warped view of it all. The fact that you've stated "it makes no sense" already might be a bit of a clue that you're starting with a false premise re: your assertion that war between Russia and the west is the intention of either.

Then please enlighten us what the purpose is of one of these sides pushing and pushing because I can't see one but a desire for provoking war

dowie · 14 Apr 2018 at 18:55

Minusorange said:
Then please enlighten us what the purpose is of one of these sides pushing and pushing because I can't see one but a desire for provoking war

Who is pushing for war?

The UK/US/France have responded to a chemical attack.

Minusorange · 14 Apr 2018 at 20:09

dowie said:
Who is pushing for war?

The UK/US/France have responded to a chemical attack.

Yes which Russia warned against and which Russia have said was not conducted by Assad's regime and done before the OPCW has started to investigate

Not to mention the poisoning of an ex Russian spy on UK soil that again Russia deny yet UK say the Russians did it

Wars have been started for much less, yet we have one side lying poking the other into something and logically that something seems to be a declaration of war because there's no other reason you would keep antagonising the other side trying to reach their breaking point

But again I'll ask, if I'm wrong then WTF do you think the reasons for all this are because it's just not for ***** & giggles

dowie · 14 Apr 2018 at 20:15

Minusorange said:
Yes which Russia warned against and which Russia have said was not conducted by Assad's regime and done before the OPCW has started to investigate

Not to mention the poisoning of an ex Russian spy on UK soil that again Russia deny yet UK say the Russians did it

Wars have been started for much less, yet we have one side lying poking the other into something and logically that something seems to be a declaration of war because there's no other reason you would keep antagonising the other side trying to reach their breaking point

But again I'll ask, if I'm wrong then WTF do you think the reasons for all this are because it's just not for ***** & giggles

It isn't clear what you're asking, why not be more specific? Are you referring to Russia?

Minusorange · 14 Apr 2018 at 20:26

dowie said:
It isn't clear what you're asking, why not be more specific? Are you referring to Russia?

Yes I'm referring to Russia

Either they're poking the UK and the West into taking military action (they've exhausted sanctions and proven it doesn't work) not only with the spy killings but with knowing full well Assad attacked his people with chemicals

or

The UK and West are poking Russia into take military action by staging false flags and blaming Russia

or

A third party state is a criminal mastermind in duping both the West and Russia into believing their own sides of the story

The only end goal reasons for these actions to me logically point towards starting a war

You say it's a false premise but you've not actually bothered to answer the question as to WHY you think this constant provocation is happening

Smokey Deza · 14 Apr 2018 at 20:41

Nodody is pushing for war, the US just want Syria under their hegemony and Assad is not playing ball being the typical puppet America is used to, so he needs to go.

Syria is of particular importance to Russia hence their presence there, because if Syria falls to western influence and Assad is unseated, that will be a problem for them.

Oh and something about Assad using chemical weapons, because the US are great humanitarians and care so much about people.

Danny75 · 14 Apr 2018 at 20:49

Smokey Deza said:
Nodody is pushing for war, the US just want Syria under their hegemony and Assad is not playing ball being the typical puppet America is used to, so he needs to go.

Syria is of particular importance to Russia hence their presence there, because if Syria falls to western influence and Assad is unseated, that will be a problem for them.

Oh and something about Assad using chemical weapons, because the US are great humanitarians and care so much about people.

I'd just add that they are pushing for Russia's submission. There is already an economic war and information war, and if Russia doesn't submit and "start playing by the rules" (as the Americans call it... AKA obeying the US) then there cannot be anything but war. There is already a proxy war between the US/UK/France/Saudi Arabia/few others and Russia, in Syria.

dowie · 14 Apr 2018 at 21:04

Minusorange said:
You say it's a false premise but you've not actually bothered to answer the question as to WHY you think this constant provocation is happening

Yes I think it is a false premise. The chemical attack in Syria wasn't Russia, it was Assad's regime. The UK failed to act last time a spy was poisoned in the UK, Russia clearly doesn't have an issue assassinating traitors.

Minusorange · 14 Apr 2018 at 21:28

dowie said:
Yes I think it is a false premise. The chemical attack in Syria wasn't Russia, it was Assad's regime. The UK failed to act last time a spy was poisoned in the UK, Russia clearly doesn't have an issue assassinating traitors.

Yet they keep pushing the limits and eventually the other side will break and we will see military action greater than last night or last year, unless you think Assad & Russia are both going to stop with their behaviour ?

Jonnycoupe · 14 Apr 2018 at 21:35

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018...oxin-used-skripal-poisoning-usuk-produced-not

jpaul · 14 Apr 2018 at 21:40

Once the OPCW return their analysis maybe he will be convinced the bears not baiting us.

I think Corbyn should be pushing May on why she is not putting Russian financial sanctions in place, following Salisbury (in harmony with USA), this would be a popularist cause,
and her soft underbelly, rather than the Syria legalities issue he is now pursuing; but maybe the Syrian chemical attack is an unfortunate distraction for both of them.