Golf Thread

[MikeTimbers]

Agree to play for a fiver but "strict rules of golf, Mr. Goldfinger!"

any second ball shot without saying provisional is a loss of hole
playing a second ball twice is accepting it as the ball in play for an additional two shots
pick and place except on the green unless stated at the first tee by the club is a two shot penalty

etc

 

[ArcticHeron]

Must have had around 10 lessons this past year from the same chap, always felt satisfied with what he taught me but it didn't change the way I felt about my swing despite all the tweaks. Just didn't feel or look right to me at all.
Decided to try a different teacher on Saturday for a fresh perspective. Explained to him my issues (not feeling I get quite as much compression, odd flights etc.) and within 5 swings he has it. I've been massively over extending my wrists throughout the backswing. Simple as that. Spent an hour getting the feel for bowed wrists and it was SUCH a breath of fresh air.

Left feeling elated but a little irritated that my previous teacher hadn't ever pointed such a simple thing out to me. I get that they don't want to overload you with too much too soon and that there may have been more pressing concerns in my swing, but still. It's such a comparatively easy fix.

 

[SKILL]

Must have had around 10 lessons this past year from the same chap, always felt satisfied with what he taught me but it didn't change the way I felt about my swing despite all the tweaks. Just didn't feel or look right to me at all.
Decided to try a different teacher on Saturday for a fresh perspective. Explained to him my issues (not feeling I get quite as much compression, odd flights etc.) and within 5 swings he has it. I've been massively over extending my wrists throughout the backswing. Simple as that. Spent an hour getting the feel for bowed wrists and it was SUCH a breath of fresh air.

Left feeling elated but a little irritated that my previous teacher hadn't ever pointed such a simple thing out to me. I get that they don't want to overload you with too much too soon and that there may have been more pressing concerns in my swing, but still. It's such a comparatively easy fix.

Have to say I've thought similar. I enjoy the lessons I do, also really like doing them in a simulator so getting all the fancy numbers. and think they are helpful/useful but there's always that thought of would I be better off with a different guy Whatever works best really and good to hear you got some positive things to look at

Talking about the simulator, just got back from finally getting a decent gapping session in, dunno if anyone remembers/cares but when I got my new Irons (Wilson Dynapower) it seemed like there was now a big-ish gap between my 'Gap Wedge' - Lazrus 52 degree - and my new Dynapower PW, which is a 42 degree for reference. I did try to do a gapping session a bit ago, got numbers for my Lazrus wedges but then the sweat got too much for the awful Lamkin grips my Irons came with, since then it's got cooler and I've fitted some new Golf Pride MCC+4 grips to the Irons.

Last time I got 'decent' numbers of:

• 60 degree - 39 yards
• 56 degree - 56 yards
• 52 degree -70 yards

Today I just did GW and the full 5-PW Dynapower Irons and got:

• 52 degree - 72 yards
• PW - 103 yards
• 9i - 110 (felt like I 'struggled' a bit to get clean strikes)
• 8i - 121
• 7i - 132
• 6i - 137 (Definitely struggled for some reason)
• 5i - 152

So other than the 6i and 9i being a bit poor in terms of data I'm reasonably happy the numbers are reasonably representative for me right now and kinda as expected that's a pretty big gap between the 52 degree GW and PW, and feeds into a few situations on the course where I've been like 80-90 yards out and felt stuck between clubs, I think an absolutely 'perfect' (for me!) 52 might go 80, but the same PW is >110 etc.

FWIW I tend to use the PW entirely for full shots (now, with my old Spalding PW I used it for basically anything <100 yards) whilst the GW has taken over from the old Spalding PW as my everything <80 yard club, including the half swings and 'chips' around the green. I rarely really use my 60 degree or 56 degree out of bunkers.

So, I can think of a few different options, but not sure what's best, in order of cost:

• Deal with it
• Put my old Spalding PW back into the bag, no idea of loft but pretty sure it's somewhere in the middle, can confirm easily enough in the simulator next time I go.
• Get the Wilson Dynapower GW (47 degrees)
• Add a single specific wedge in the 46-48 degree range
• Say sod it and get 3 new wedges (or 4?!), kinda roughly thinking a 46 degree, 54 degree and 58/60 degree, bit of a gap between the 46 and 54 but as I don't really use that 54(/56) for full shots it's basically just a SW for bunkers so gapping seems less important.

Possibly worth adding the Lazrus wedges seem to be a bit of a grey area in legality, they don't appear to be listed in the USGA/R&A databases, which I don't think makes them illegal explicitly but is a bit 'grey'... Not a huge issue but I am starting to do more low-level comps so feels like properly approved clubs would be nice to have.

So what to do oh great oracles of OcUK?

 

[Superpatsy]

/snip

In my opinion...

If money isn't an issue, get fitted for 4 new wedges.

Another option would be to see if you can find a used 48 in a good condition online and give it a bash. If it's not any good, you could probably re-coup most of the money if you sold it.

 

[ArcticHeron]

And until you need to break 80 I'd leave 60 out of the bag. It just over complicates the short game.

 

[SKILL]

In my opinion...

If money isn't an issue, get fitted for 4 new wedges.

Another option would be to see if you can find a used 48 in a good condition online and give it a bash. If it's not any good, you could probably re-coup most of the money if you sold it.

It's not exactly 'money no issue', but I do like spending money/getting shiny new toys, kinda been eyeing up the Mizuno T-22 with the Denim Copper finish

Hadn't thought of second hand I'll take a look, although I kinda went Lazrus wedges largely so all 3 were the same in the bag tbh, golf has brought out a vanity I didn't realise I had

And until you need to break 80 I'd leave 60 out of the bag. It just over complicates the short game.

I've heard similar before and certainly the 60 barely ever leaves the bag, so certainly not averse to that really, I doubt I'd really even notice if my wedges stopped at a 54/56 degree sand wedge tbh, might be an idea to save costs if I do go all-in with brand new fitted wedges tbh

 

[Deanje]

...

I only carry 2 wedges: 52/58; but, my PW in my irons is 47 degrees, so gaps are good.

Pitched in from 60 yards when I played on Friday, for what I thought was birdie. Then I remembered I was 3 off the tee and it was actually a 60 yard bogey, sad times.

 

[MarkA]

A lot of the greens I play on around here, tend to be raised greens, where if you've missed. You're likely 3 feet below the hole off the green.
I tend to use my 60 a lot, for all of those shots and don't even consider a different club.
What club do you guys use to chip it up and on, if not a 58-60' ?

eg.

 

[ArcticHeron]

56 for anything inside 80ft, just manipulate stance, swing and club face to whatever's needed. I've always been blessed with a pretty great short game though, it's not something I've had to work at much at all since I started playing again (comparatively speaking, of course).

I have a 58 but it's never really in the bag, it's just so situational as to be almost redundant imo and on the one occasion I picked up a 60 I just despised it, probably because the bounce was all off.

It's all preference though.

I'm a big fan of Dan Grieve's, his book is truly excellent. Learnt so much about chipping from him over the past year.

 

[Superpatsy]

I swear by my 60 - it's one of two clubs that I have full confidence with, my putter being the other. I'd be genuinely lost on the course without it and I've yet to break 90, although I've hit 90 twice frustratingly.

 

[Deanje]

A lot of the greens I play on around here, tend to be raised greens, where if you've missed. You're likely 3 feet below the hole off the green.
I tend to use my 60 a lot, for all of those shots and don't even consider a different club.
What club do you guys use to chip it up and on, if not a 58-60' ?

eg.

The factors you're judging are landing spot and rollout. For most, getting the ball on the ground and rolling is better than trying to get it stop quickly; generally a higher percentage shot. So, given that, position relative to the pin/amount of green to work with becomes the major question, with intermediate obstacles being the next question e.g. if there's no bunker, and you're not short sided, why do you need to fly it high and stop it quickly. Very situation dependent, mind, so if you don't think you can launch a particular club high enough to get the shot you want, then you do what you need to do.

If you're happy manipulating your 60 to produce different shots, there's nothing wrong with that, though. You'll tend to see a lot of pros use the same club around the greens because they've developed the skill to manipulate the loft and attack angle to produce different results.
I use a 52 for most things, I find I can add loft easily enough, but removing loft scares me as it's reducing bounce and makes me afraid of digging in. Ironically, I tend to play my 58 more on longer shots and only tend to use it around the green when short sided.

 

[SKILL]

A lot of the greens I play on around here, tend to be raised greens, where if you've missed. You're likely 3 feet below the hole off the green.
I tend to use my 60 a lot, for all of those shots and don't even consider a different club.
What club do you guys use to chip it up and on, if not a 58-60' ?

eg.

Depends on situation obviously but I'd probably use my 52, at least unless I was right at the bottom of the slope where it's more likely to hit into the slope and die. But more than a couple of feet back is enough for it to get up and over the slope and onto the green and running.

For me the 60 is either when I've left myself right in front of something like a hedge I need to get up and over quickly, or I'm trying to practice/consider it more if I've got very little "green to play with", the 52 works really well in almost all situations but it does roll a bit, great at times but other times it's easy to roll it back off the green.

I've been trying to do some more short game like practice these past couple of weeks, I picked up a 'clikka tube' to make it easier to practice chipping and used my alignming sticks to make 'targets', I actually find the 60 pretty good for that and probably no more dangerous than the 52, but the 52 is my comfort club still. Even to the point I ignore the whole "A bad putt is better than a bad chip" mentality cause chipping is cool damnit, even if you're not going full flop shot

 

[MarkA]

The factors you're judging are landing spot and rollout. For most, getting the ball on the ground and rolling is better than trying to get it stop quickly; generally a higher percentage shot. So, given that, position relative to the pin/amount of green to work with becomes the major question, with intermediate obstacles being the next question e.g. if there's no bunker, and you're not short sided, why do you need to fly it high and stop it quickly. Very situation dependent, mind, so if you don't think you can launch a particular club high enough to get the shot you want, then you do what you need to do.

If you're happy manipulating your 60 to produce different shots, there's nothing wrong with that, though. You'll tend to see a lot of pros use the same club around the greens because they've developed the skill to manipulate the loft and attack angle to produce different results.
I use a 52 for most things, I find I can add loft easily enough, but removing loft scares me as it's reducing bounce and makes me afraid of digging in. Ironically, I tend to play my 58 more on longer shots and only tend to use it around the green when short sided.

The problem for me, when you're facing a steep bank and the greens are generally quite small around here, there's never a good amount of room behind the pin that would allow me to hit something lower and have it stop quickly at the same time, especially since it's been so dry lately (until the last couple of days of course).

Do you find you have enough loft with your 52' (even when opened up) to get your ball up these 2-3 foot banks and stop quickly enough for some small greens? I'm not keen on the bump and run, as when I'm off the edge of these greens, I'm only off by 6-10ft and hitting it into the bank isn't going to work, as it'd likely just stop and not make it up and I don't want to mess about with that level of risk.

My miss isn't with getting it up, my miss is more about swinging too hard and it flying to the back of the green.

 

[Deanje]

Do you find you have enough loft with your 52' (even when opened up) to get your ball up these 2-3 foot banks and stop quickly enough for some small greens?

Depends on the lie; if it's a super tight lie, I wouldn't want to open the 52 up too much, but otherwise I don't have much issue with the launch in most situations.

The problem for me, when you're facing a steep bank and the greens are generally quite small around here, there's never a good amount of room behind the pin that would allow me to hit something lower and have it stop quickly at the same time, especially since it's been so dry lately (until the last couple of days of course).

Very difficult to gauge when speaking in generalisations, as like I said, it's very situational; but, worth playing with landing spots with lower lofted clubs in your practice and see how that affects rollout - they generally won't stop as quick, but that's where you control your landing spot. A course I used to play at had a lot of extremely small greens (council run so I expect space and maintenance were factors), and that may have changed how I see things, so it's definitely a feel thing in the moment.
Best bet is to play around with clubs and landing spots in practice, and perhaps give yourself a few more tools to work with. Also, if you're finding yourself short sided a lot, then perhaps take the thought process back a bit and start thinking about how to miss on the 'right side'.

https://twitter.com/LouStagner/status/1678062450120245251

This was a great tweet, real eye opener on the habits of better players as far as managing your misses goes. Lou Stagner is actually a great source of info for all things golf, you can learn a lot from his dives in to stats.

 

[Cornubia]

Well a quick update regarding last weekends round and it was somewhat disappointing.

Started well and played some nice shots but unfortunately the round just didn't seem to click with a bit of bad luck thrown in for good measure.

Three par putts that narrowly missed, a few mis-aligned chips at key points and some awkward bounces all contributed to a lackluster 101. On another day that would have broke 100,

Hopefully it stays dry for this weekend and we go again.

 

[stephenb]

**Warning** long post incoming

As per my previous posting I did end up deciding to go away for a little golf break this week Needed to get away from home for *reasons* so a trip to Heythrop Park it was. Two nights and three rounds of golf. In respect of the hotel I was staying in the much! newer south wing which looks like it was probably constructed in the 80's, but still very nice and my double room perfectly functional. If you every go I'd try and get something in the north wing, a part of which is currently under construction as this puts you right next door to the golf facilities.

Golf Facilities
There is a very small prop shop, not much good for anything other than replenishing your stock of balls. No putting green at present as the old one was replaced by the north wing car park. A new one is under construction which will sit behind the new car park and to the left of the driving range. The range has a few covered bays and a larger outdoor section which is off grass. It's adjacent to the 3rd fairway and when you're on the course you'll find a lot of range balls have made there way over, guess I'm not the only one who can slice their driver! There are a decent amount of buggies available to hire, at £25 a pop, and after walking with my push trolley on first round and battling the elements I can say you'll definitely want to hire one!

The Course

https://www.warnerleisurehotels.co.uk/Images/HP-Golf-Course_Map_tcm13-54158.pdf

Advertised as a championship par 72 course at over 7000 yards from the tips I would say from my limited experience it would live up to the billing but for a little more TLC. This is a very demanding course with barely a flat fairway to be found, aside the opening and closing holes. It winds its way around the estate and manor house with lots of ups and downs, many dog-legs and one carry that will challenge any mid to high handicaper like myself (depending on your chosen tees). Walks between some of the holes are as long as the holes themselves. If walking I'd estimate you'd be covering around 8500-9000 yards in total and with the steep ups and downs you need to be fit. The course map above should give you an idea.

The condition of the course was mixed. Tee boxes were all nice and level, something I'm not used to at home, but often a little barren. They obviously don't have sprinklers to keep them green. Maybe understandable with most holes having four or five of them. A number of the tee markers were missing the colour band to indicate which tee it was and the plates in the ground to state this could with with a clean and polish. And I didn't see any markers for the black or blue tees, maybe the former only come out for comps? Par three's had seed boxes, but not on every tee box, and I only found one with a trowel in. Signage, very important on such a spread out course, was generally good but there were a couple of occasions where it wasn't necessarily clear which way to go or where to go to find your tee. Split boxes on a couple of the holes (12th & 14th) and going from the 14th green to 15th tee confused me the first time. Fairways were nice and green and as mentioned before often sloped from one side to the other making for some very challenging shots where the ball was either way above or below your feet. I really struggled with this. There's not masses of water but but where it is it fits in naturally, I guess because it was there before the course. Couple of the lakes/rivers could do with the algie cleaning from the surface. The greens were threadbare in places but otherwise very lush and running true. Some of collars a little barren, looks like they may struggle with ant hills(?) as there were bare dinner plate sized patches all over the course.

Holes
The 1st is a straight par 4 to ease you in: http://www.zen215777.zen.co.uk/Golf/Heythrop-Park/1st-tee.jpg

The 2nd a downhill par 3 with OB on the left and a raised green. 3rd and 4th oppose each other and it's here you'll get your first taste of the sloping fairways!

It's then a bit of a drive to reach the 5th tees: http://www.zen215777.zen.co.uk/Golf/Heythrop-Park/Beware-5th-hole-carry.jpg
Hopefully you've chosen to play off tees that match your ability. Pleased to say I did manage to make the carry from the yellows, just (I did hit some extra for fun, one of which I ripped to the far side of the fairway)! http://www.zen215777.zen.co.uk/Golf/Heythrop-Park/5th-just-made-the-carry.jpg
Looking back to the tees: http://www.zen215777.zen.co.uk/Golf/Heythrop-Park/Looking back to 5th tees.jpg

The 6th has you hitting back over the water you've just cleared on the 5th, and doubling back on yourself to cross it - something of a theme on this course, to another big sloping fairway which has water lining the left side all the way to and around the green. I think big hitters could be bold and go straight for the green. The 7th is quite elevated and for the three days I was there the wind was up and always seemed to be into your face

8th is one of the doglegs with a secluded tee box: http://www.zen215777.zen.co.uk/Golf/Heythrop-Park/Secluded-8th-tee.jpg
Black, white and yellow tees all from the same box with a carry to the fairway. Reds and blues much farther up: http://www.zen215777.zen.co.uk/Golf/Heythrop-Park/Looking-back-to-8th-tee.jpg

Par 3 9th has water down the right side, don't go there. 10th takes you back towards the manor house. 11th has you teeing off to the fairway which can be seen by anyone out enjoying the gardens: http://www.zen215777.zen.co.uk/Golf/Heythrop-Park/Looking-back-on-11.jpg
The manor house itself: http://www.zen215777.zen.co.uk/Golf/Heythrop-Park/Manor-House.jpg

There's another long travel between the 11th and 12th holes which takes in crossing the road that takes guests up to the hotel. Another long trek to the 13th which is an attractive par three with a very steep down and up to get from tee to green with instructions on where to park your buggy so it doesn't roll away: http://www.zen215777.zen.co.uk/Golf/Heythrop-Park/13th-green-looking-back-to-tees.jpg

14th an interesting carry to possibly the most sloped fairway and a double dog leg down to the green: http://www.zen215777.zen.co.uk/Golf/Heythrop-Park/14th-tee.jpg
From here another long route to the next tee and the closing stretch of holes. A look at the 17th green: http://www.zen215777.zen.co.uk/Golf/Heythrop-Park/17th-green.jpg
All the holes have these nice maps: http://www.zen215777.zen.co.uk/Golf/Heythrop-Park/18th.jpg
The 18th is just a long straight par 5 back towards the manor house, the longest on the course and just shy of 600 yards from the tips.

The middle of my three rounds (first I walked and practiced from the reds to get a feel for the layout, third (today) I played horribly): http://www.zen215777.zen.co.uk/Golf/Heythrop-Park/Scorecard.jpg
My course handicap was 27 so net par for me. See if you spot the error on the card.

All in all if you're ever in the area I'd definitely recommend visiting. If I ever manage to improve my game substantially it would be interesting to go back and see how I compare.

 

[Cornubia]

I've yet to get a 60 degree wedge

I've got a 45 degree PW, 52 gap wedge and 56 sand wedge.

Almost forgot i also carry a 64 degree Dunlop wedge that i use for bashing down the brambles when searching for balls.

 

[Deanje]

**Warning** long post incoming

Nice write up, thanks. Always nice to see other courses.

New island green being installed at my club, don't imagine my lost ball count will be going down after it's ready to play.

 

[SKILL]

Where I play in Bristol on the Signature course the 17th is a bit similar to that, tee way above the island green, always seems to be way harder than the numbers feel like it should... So many lost balls in that lake

 

[-westy-]

Where I play in Bristol on the Signature course the 17th is a bit similar to that, tee way above the island green, always seems to be way harder than the numbers feel like it should... So many lost balls in that lake

Woodlands? The walk up to that tee box is brutal!