Pardon? Dalglish won 3 times at Chelsea, 4 times against them in total. That has nothing to do with his inability to change systems when they weren't working in matches we were losing/drawing and seeing 85th minute substitutions was just painful
Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [10 - 11th November 2012]
- Thread starter Robbo
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Pardon? Dalglish won 3 times at Chelsea, 4 times against them in total. That has nothing to do with his inability to change systems when they weren't working in matches we were losing/drawing and seeing 85th minute substitutions was just painful
Don
Feel a bit sorry for Suarez and his celebration, bizarre no one celebrated with him!
Only counted league games...
But his 3-5-1-1 in Feb 2011 was pretty much what BR tried today, only it actually worked back then. Here Rodgers couldn't fit the players in to it, and the first half was appalling to watch.
It seems to have being spreading for a while that Dalglish was inflexible and limited in tactics, in spite of his adaptability to different opposition and generally out-performing the top sides when we played them. Maybe Playstation games encourage a more tinker-ish approach that ignores the need to build a team and players confidence.
You compare what Clarke is doing now at West Brom to Rodgers at Liverpool, and wonder who is the higher quality coach?
But his 3-5-1-1 in Feb 2011 was pretty much what BR tried today, only it actually worked back then. Here Rodgers couldn't fit the players in to it, and the first half was appalling to watch.
It seems to have being spreading for a while that Dalglish was inflexible and limited in tactics, in spite of his adaptability to different opposition and generally out-performing the top sides when we played them. Maybe Playstation games encourage a more tinker-ish approach that ignores the need to build a team and players confidence.
You compare what Clarke is doing now at West Brom to Rodgers at Liverpool, and wonder who is the higher quality coach?
Caporegime
Dalglish did not act quick enough when players were struggling or our tactics weren't working and that's before we get on to his love of the outdated 4-4-2 formation and British players. He'll always be the king in my eyes but last season was an absolute disaster on and off the pitch.
It is not clear that changes in tactics or substitutions lead to improved outcomes, or that allowing players to individually adjust their play is less effective than manager-led modifications. Liverpool traditionally bought smart players that could work out opposition weaknesses themselves, and play to them within a general pass-and-move framework. Maybe modern players are not smart enough, or too evenly matched for this, and the whole game rests on the inventiveness of the manager. I personally doubt this.
Are Barca more smart player led, or manager led?
Often he wasn't playing 4-4-2, certainly with Suarez alone it was more of a 4-2-3-1, and 4-1-3-2 with Carroll.
Carroll didn't work out because Carroll ultimately didn't have the mentality (Downing too). That affected the overall season, but within that Liverpool played some great football, and were a finisher and scoring-midfielder away from top 3.
As interesting as BR's take on passing is, it isn't a radical departure from anything Liverpool have done before, and it isn't really an effective one right now either. Dalglish minus Comolli in 2011 arguably produced a much better team with only slightly better personnel.
The football in Dalglish's first 6 months was exceptional but as others have said, he struggled to change things when we weren't playing well.
As for the lack of effectiveness of Rodgers system, I disagree. It's not the systems fault that we're not killing teams off, it's the lack of goalscorers in the side. It was the same problem last season.
As for the lack of effectiveness of Rodgers system, I disagree. It's not the systems fault that we're not killing teams off, it's the lack of goalscorers in the side. It was the same problem last season.
Associate
Rodgers: "We need one or two more players, it's as simple as that.'
Would probably agree on basis of our first team, however in terms of the squad we will need a lot more than 2 IMHO.
Would probably agree on basis of our first team, however in terms of the squad we will need a lot more than 2 IMHO.
I think that the first comment speaks to the point that Dalglish can get a side playing bad football (under Hodgson) to turn around and be capable of beating any side in the league.
The second paragraph could equally be applied to Dalglish last year. Liverpool battered teams and didn't have a finisher. 5-10 more goals and Dalglish would still be in the job. Ultimately he didn't have the players at his disposal to make the changes count, due to the poor performance of Carroll and Downing (plus perhaps beyond that he saw the season as transitional, and the importance of bedding in players as superior to going for the experience of Kuyt and Maxi who were neither world-beaters, nor part of long term plans).
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I'm not sure how responsible Dalglish was for the signings of Carroll & Suarez (he'd only been in the caretaker job 5 minutes when they were signed) but he has to take his share of the responsibility for the summers transfers and ultimately that's what led to our short comings in terms of personnel both last season and still now.
I have an odd sense of sympathy for him as well.
Associate
They all trotted off back to the half way line, you can see it in the gif, I can only assume they had the bit between their teeth and wanted to go for the win. I am sure Suarez was told why afterwards, he looked like a lost child though
I don't care what anyone says, one of the best players in the league, if not Europe for me.
Story was that he had scouted Suarez for Hodgson, but everybody takes credit for successes. Agreed that Downing/Carroll/Adams haven't worked out, but most managers are lucky if 50% of signings come off. I don't think that Downing and Carroll are terrible players, and I don't think that the price tags were down to Dalglish. Adam was only ever a poor man's Gerrard, except he developed the yips and could never offer the delivery he did at Blackpool.
Find it a bit frustrating that BR is hailed as a new enlightened manager at Liverpool, and Dalglish a dinosaur, when that's not really what happened, or how it is.
I'm sure Dalglish did scout Suarez (it was actually when Benitez was in charge) but he wasn't the driver behind his or Carroll's signings. No club is going to allow a caretaker to make the decisions on £20-£30m signings. I'm also sure Dalglish didn't negotiate the deals for the players we signed and therefor it would be unfair to use their price tag against him but regardless of their price they weren't good enough/didn't perform. Personally I'd have given Dalglish another year to try to get it right but given the failings of last season, it's difficult to argue with not giving him that year either.
Re Suarez, I'd heard that him and Miereles were both on the list Rafa had drawn up prior to his sacking, kept his transfer targets but sacked the man..shambles of a club. I don't think Kenny would have changed it around, for whatever reason he continualy persisted with the wrong formation & 'his' players playing out of position. In his 1st 6 months with Suarez up front we had Maxi & Meireles able to support him (both very clever players), for some strange reason come the next season he persisted with suarez up top alone and no support midfielders, hell the midfield were a lot of the time sat on the halfway line 30/40 yards behind Suarez.
Fast forward to this season, and in a lot of games its the same story, Suarez up top alone with this 'support' 30/40 yards behind him. Its baffling.
For the game today Chelsea were there for the taking, wasn't impressed by them at all. I don't think we need a striker persay, more along the lines of support midfield like Mata or Hazard (annoymous today), able to get into the box late. Shelvey is (imo) the only midfielder we have like that, maybe Suso too. Gerrard looked knackered, offered nothing 2nd half..time to bench him?
Side note, what did people make of BR's comments on our formation in previous games...4-2-3-1 when its been universally commented on that we have played 4-3-3..
Fast forward to this season, and in a lot of games its the same story, Suarez up top alone with this 'support' 30/40 yards behind him. Its baffling.
For the game today Chelsea were there for the taking, wasn't impressed by them at all. I don't think we need a striker persay, more along the lines of support midfield like Mata or Hazard (annoymous today), able to get into the box late. Shelvey is (imo) the only midfielder we have like that, maybe Suso too. Gerrard looked knackered, offered nothing 2nd half..time to bench him?
Side note, what did people make of BR's comments on our formation in previous games...4-2-3-1 when its been universally commented on that we have played 4-3-3..