Caporegime
Robot rights for Humans!!!!
Human Rights For Robots.
- Thread starter tracertong
- Start date
There are many smart people - mathematicians, software engineers, etc - who believe the singularity is fiction.
It basically argues that sentience will come spontaneously come into being when machines become fast and complex enough.
Which is nonsense. So long as machines are executing a sequence of instructions that basically amount to "move this data from here to here; add these numbers; jump if the result is 0".... it doesn't matter how *fast* you execute that code... it's no more "intelligent" than an egg timer using sand to measure time. Or any other mechanical device.
A machine can process data coming from a camera, and use that data to isolate a man's face or a car's number plate.
Does the machine "see" the man or the car? Does it begin to understand what a car is, if it processes sufficient number plates? Does think about the car in new ways, beyond looking for the number plate? Does it begin to "like" its job? Nope. None of that.
Of course people will say "Oh that chap from Google is very smart, smarter than you!" And I'm not disputing that. But historically a lot of smart people have made very poor predictions about the future. We *always* believe the future is closer than it really is.
In the 80s they thought we'd be living in space and flying around on hoverboards. And some very, very smart people thought we'd have sentient robots already.
But in the years that followed, machines - whilst becoming ever faster and smaller - have remained mindless number crunchers. Nobody codes a great piece of software and then credits the machine that runs it. Of course they don't! They credit the team who created the software.
The *real* source of the demonstrated intelligence is the designer of the software. The computer is executing their ideas and using the patterns they gave it. When does a computer process the data in ways not planned by the designer (discounting bugs
) When does a computer invent its own method of solving a problem? By what method can a computer create new solutions, open new pathways when the designer had not intended for it to happen?Do you believe the AI revolution will come about through "code mutations", ie by accident? That some bits could flip and instead of a fatal error you've got a sentient machine?
The belief that sentient AI will arise from increased speed or complexity, the so-called "singularity", I will never believe it.
A truly self-aware, conscious, reasoning, thinking machine - it is fiction. I am 100% confident it will not happen in my lifetime, at the least. And I'm only 35.
You can already "fake" it with algorithms that process a massive amount of human-generated content and repeat bits of it based on context. But such an algorithm is not intelligence. We're not closer to machine intelligence than we were years ago. We just have better, more complex, human designed algorithms.
Thinking that the machine which executes the human-designed software could ever be the "source" of the intelligence is crazy.
Caporegime
Tell me when human rights for anime characters becomes a thing.
Asking, uh, for a friend.
Asking, uh, for a friend.
you really think you don't come pre programmed and running a biological softwar, haha.
so yes many many people think it is pure complexity.
No I don't think we are pre-programmed. The brain develops differently according to the environment you grow up in. Additionally, the brain is "elastic", and can be trained.
You could say that environment contributes to our "programming", but we are not "pre-programmed" by any means.
That's just as bad as believing everything is "fate".
It's pretty sad that some people can't see the difference between a human being and a piece of software, Glaucus.
wow just wow, we absolutely do come pre programmed, look at any research. We have instincts and teh brain workd in a certain way. enviroment etc allows you to ad dmemories and change what is essentially antilogarithms you use to determine what things are.
who said anything about tellign the difference, no one, oyher than more nonsense from you.
who said anything about tellign the difference, no one, oyher than more nonsense from you.
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We'll have to agree to differ there. I was only reading something the other day which said the way the brain develops in infancy is strongly affected by how secure and nurturing the child's environment is.
Ie, children who grow up in war-torn Syria, those children's brain development will be completely different to a child born and raised as a Saudi prince.
But feel free to go on believing we're pre-programmed, quoting "any research" as your authority. I don't care what you believe, frankly.
Ie, children who grow up in war-torn Syria, those children's brain development will be completely different to a child born and raised as a Saudi prince.
But feel free to go on believing we're pre-programmed, quoting "any research" as your authority. I don't care what you believe, frankly.
Soldato
yes develops not created, just like ai develops and changes (albeit in a much lesser extent at the moment) that doesn't mean its not pre programmed, why do you think we are instinctively scared of certain things, there are hundreds of non learned behaviour.
what ever you think you are simply wrong, we are born very much programmed.
Soldato
Of course I'm wrong, Glaucus, if it's not what you believe. I know this from prior experience of you
Even your spelling and grammar is correct, Sliver and I are just reading it wrong.
wow nice come back.
yes grammer spellign and language inn generall is terriable. well done for spotting that deaceds late.
got nothing to do with what i believe, the research is out there, not that you need the research. its plain as day. who taught you to breath and the other million processes, who taught you non learned behaviour etc. It is plain as day we come pre programed which is then altered and improved as you gain experiences.
yes grammer spellign and language inn generall is terriable. well done for spotting that deaceds late.
got nothing to do with what i believe, the research is out there, not that you need the research. its plain as day. who taught you to breath and the other million processes, who taught you non learned behaviour etc. It is plain as day we come pre programed which is then altered and improved as you gain experiences.
No. We don't come pre-programmed.
FoxEye is correct, he is talking about neuroplasticity.
We are only partially "pre programmed", things like organs, but human brains are very large and highly evolved. Neural pathways are CONSTANTLY changing. You can have one thought and it can physically change your brain's neural pathways.
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Soldato
yes we are, what do you think neurons are based on and how they form chains, pure luck?
Soldato
I think we're in danger of going full-retard here, and reducing things to the level of "atoms are pre-programmed to form molecules; the laws of physic are pre-programmed"...
Not a place we need to go
I think we're in danger of going full-retard here, and reducing things to the level of "atoms are pre-programmed to form molecules; the laws of physic are pre-programmed"...
Not a place we need to go
cleary we aren't, two totally different things, sounds like you actually just cant argue you point as you know its wrong.
to think we don't come pre programmed is just insane.
Don't try be smart. I put the latter in quotations. The current state of your brain's neural pathways are not pre-programmed, certainly not when even a thought can cause physical changes.
Partially "pre-programmed" as in you cant think your heart into changing shape.
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