Hungarian Grand Prix 2010, Hungaroring Circuit - Race 12/19

JRS · 31 Jul 2010 at 20:51

utajoker said:
how long have redbull had the 'flexi wing', if its deemed illegal will they have all previous results void and lose the points?

What will happen will be the same 'rule clarification' that happened re: the Ferrari floor in 2007. The rule will be changed from this point onwards, rather than being applied retrospectively. Not that this doesn't stop folks claiming that it should invalidate all previous results (looking at you, NathanE

). But seriously - mid-way through 1969 the FIA banned high-mounted wings. The previous results weren't invalidated. In 1976, the FIA banned high-mounted airboxes after the first few races. The previous results weren't invalidated. When McLaren's trick 3rd pedal was banned, they didn't take away any points scored with it. When Renault's mass damper was banned, they didn't take away any points scored with it (though they ought to have, just to wind up Flav!).

I don't recall that argument working all that well last time this came up though, so I shall duck and head for cover

Won't be able to watch the race live (going for Sunday lunch at Dovecliff Hall of all places). Part of me is almost glad....don't think I could stand to see the RBRs win it by a country mile.

sunama · 31 Jul 2010 at 20:56

I cannot believe that RBR will be starting from anything other than the front row.

If the FIA deem the wings illegal (or similar), they could ask Ferrari and RBR to use stiffer wings which don't flex, for tomorrows race and beyond.

I think it will be scandalous if RBR or Ferrari are demoted.

sunama · 31 Jul 2010 at 20:58

JRS said:
Won't be able to watch the race live (going for Sunday lunch at Dovecliff Hall of all places). Part of me is almost glad....don't think I could stand to see the RBRs win it by a country mile.

Are you not an RBR fan?

I thought that you would've liked to see a new(ish) team enter the winner's rostrum.

JRS · 31 Jul 2010 at 21:04

sunama said:
Are you not an RBR fan?

Not particularly.

sunama said:
I thought that you would've liked to see a new(ish) team enter the winner's rostrum.

RBR used to be Jaguar. Which used to be Stewart. Who entered in 1997. 1997 was 13 years ago. This does not make them new, or even new(ish). This makes them old hands at this game.

I think the drivers are both excellent, but both can be whiny little brats on their day. I think the team principal is a complete and utter ****. And I think that the drink that they advertise is an affront to the tastebuds.

That sum it up for you?

hiroofheroes · 31 Jul 2010 at 21:07

sunama said:
I cannot believe that RBR will be starting from anything other than the front row.

If the FIA deem the wings illegal (or similar), they could ask Ferrari and RBR to use stiffer wings which don't flex, for tomorrows race and beyond.

I think it will be scandalous if RBR or Ferrari are demoted.

There is no way that changing a part on the car would not give them a grid drop - they'll either start from the front with the flexi wings, or the back with stiffer wings.

dannyjo22 · 31 Jul 2010 at 21:17

JRS said:
Not particularly.

RBR used to be Jaguar. Which used to be Stewart. Who entered in 1997. 1997 was 13 years ago. This does not make them new, or even new(ish). This makes them old hands at this game.

I think the drivers are both excellent, but both can be whiny little brats on their day. I think the team principal is a complete and utter ****. And I think that the drink that they advertise is an affront to the tastebuds.

That sum it up for you?

Got a laugh from me after a hard, well long day at work

A shame really that Rahal didn't secure Newey earlier when he almost pulled it off. Ok they probably wouldn't have had the budget but it would be nice to still see Jaguar racing.

JRS · 31 Jul 2010 at 21:30

dannyjo22 said:
Got a laugh from me after a hard, well long day at work

Glad to be of service

dannyjo22 said:
A shame really that Rahal didn't secure Newey earlier when he almost pulled it off. Ok they probably wouldn't have had the budget but it would be nice to still see Jaguar racing.

I guess it is a shame, but it was never going to happen. Jaguar went through that many changes of management, it was always a bit of a rudder-less ship under Ford ownership. You always got the sense that the few good results they had came from right out of left-field, as opposed to a long-term strategy with an end-goal of winning the title.

mmj_uk · 31 Jul 2010 at 21:33

sunama said:
I cannot believe that RBR will be starting from anything other than the front row.

If the FIA deem the wings illegal (or similar), they could ask Ferrari and RBR to use stiffer wings which don't flex, for tomorrows race and beyond.

I think it will be scandalous if RBR or Ferrari are demoted.

It makes you wonder if the other teams have purposely waited until after qualifying before kicking up a stink, if the wings were deemed illegal pre-race RBR would've used a fixed wing and still dominated, now they could be looking at the back of the grid for the race.

Mp4 · 31 Jul 2010 at 21:49

Whatever the outcome i hope for the sports sake that nobody is penalised and new rules/reg if any are 100% bullet proof. If FIA say Flexi wing is legit!

Game on! it gives Mclaren 2 weeks to figure out to get their own back

sunama · 31 Jul 2010 at 22:24

I'm expecting the one of the most boring races of all time tomorrow. I think the most exciting thing about the race will be if the Stewards/FIA make some crazy decision which effects the outcome of the race. The on-track action is all set to be utterly dire.

dalin80 · 31 Jul 2010 at 22:42

sunama said:
I cannot believe that RBR will be starting from anything other than the front row.

If the FIA deem the wings illegal (or similar), they could ask Ferrari and RBR to use stiffer wings which don't flex, for tomorrows race and beyond.

I think it will be scandalous if RBR or Ferrari are demoted.

when toyota were penalised for flexible rear wings a few years back they had to start from the back with a few bits of carbon fibre glued in to stop the movement.

Glaucus · 31 Jul 2010 at 22:58

utajoker said:
how long have redbull had the 'flexi wing', if its deemed illegal will they have all previous results void and lose the points?

since last year, previous results and points will be unchanged

sunama said:
If the FIA deem the wings illegal (or similar), they could ask Ferrari and RBR to use stiffer wings which don't flex, for tomorrows race and beyond.

If they are deemed illegal (which I doubt it), then I expect they won'#t clarify till after the race, as I doubt teams have spare stiff wings.

sunama · 31 Jul 2010 at 23:01

dalin80 said:
when toyota were penalised for flexible rear wings a few years back they had to start from the back with a few bits of carbon fibre glued in to stop the movement.

The difference is that this time around the FIA already knew about the flexing of the front wings. The entire pitlane knew about it. Hence, it would be nigh on impossible for the FIA to impose a penalty on RedBull AFTER qualifying, when they could've notified RBR of their illegal car before the race weekend.

Now, had nobody known about the flexi wings and RBR brought them along to the race weekend, on the quiet and took everybody by surprise, THEN the wings were discovered and declared illegal, the FIA have every right to punish the team as they see fit.

In RBR's case, the entire pitlane have known about the flexi wings for a while now. The FIA have previously tested the wings and they have passed. RBR should have nothing to worry about. Worst case scenario - they might be asked RBR to use "normal" wings for the race and beyond. Punishment - no way.

NathanE · 31 Jul 2010 at 23:32

Interesting picture from pre-season testing...

Dimi · 31 Jul 2010 at 23:45

Haha,

Why the sudden outrage, well i say sudden since we've heard about this since Germany last weekend, But haven't Red Bull been running this spec wing for ages?

A photographer decides to take a few photo's of the front wings of Red Bull's and Ferrari's cars and suddenly everyones up in arms about it, OH MY GOD it touches the floor! I don't see what the FIA can do about it, Both cars have passed the tests.

Red Bull's version seems the more extreme case though, Ferrari's version isn't even complete while Mclaren are nowhere to be seen.

Instead of complaining and spouting a bunch of crap on live tv, The others should copy.. If they know how to make it work.

On another note, This race is going to be even worse in terms of hoping for a bit of action, Barcelona all over again.

NathanE · 31 Jul 2010 at 23:46

Dimi said:
Haha,

Why the sudden outrage, well i say sudden since we've heard about this since Germany last weekend, But haven't Red Bull been running this spec wing for ages?

Since the first race at Bahrain yup.

Jimbeam3678 · 31 Jul 2010 at 23:49

im missing the point of the front wing debate as I missed quali whats a condensed version of events?

NightSt@lk3r · 1 Aug 2010 at 00:19

NathanE said:
Since the first race at Bahrain yup.

How did you figure that when it was the new spec front wings that caused all the controversy at Silverstone for Red Bull?

mmj_uk · 1 Aug 2010 at 01:00

divaboy said:
im missing the point of the front wing debate as I missed quali whats a condensed version of events?

This should fill you in:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8872761.stm

Some photos also here:
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/photo-exclusive-red-bull-flexi-front-wing-judge-for-yourself/

FrankJH · 1 Aug 2010 at 06:31

I was under the impression that RBR and Ferrari would be racing under appeal - which would happen at a later date

If its found to be legal (I cant see how, even though imo its the test that was wrong as well as RBR) then RBR keep any points from the race, and if not then they lose them

I also thought that one rule actually states that the wing end fences cannot be under 85mm from the track at any time - If that is the case then (given the recent pictures of the RBR and less so the Ferrari) it isnt the "spirit" of the rule that is being broken, its the rule itself (even if the FIA are incompetant to design a test to suitibly test for this)

The other thing I just thought about - McLaren and Mercedes have "unofficially" protested, lets just say (being devil's advocate) that the answer (unofficially) comes back that the wing IS illegal - surely scrutineering will just throw the flexiwing cars out of the result after crossing the line ........