Hungarian Grand Prix 2010, Hungaroring Circuit - Race 12/19

[dalin80]

I don't see what the FIA can do about it, Both cars have passed the tests.

.

It passes the one load test of 500n (50kg) but there are two other rules to take into account, one that states the min distance to the floor (85mm if memory serves) and another cover all note about any piece of aero that moves excessively while the car is moving to be counted as a movable aero device.

The DBR and ferrari wings only passed one test, mclaren and merc are seeking clarification about the two other parts of the rule, we have seen the DBR wing almost scraping the floor which suggests that it isnt x distance off the floor anymore.

 

[Glaucus]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8871638.stm
The Red Bulls of Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber dominate the first practice session for the Hungarian GP.

F1: Highlights - Hungarian Grand Prix second practice
Sebastian Vettel is once again the fastest man at the Hungaroring, but Fernando Alonso and Ferrari close the gap in Friday afternoon's practice session.

Watch Sebastian Vettel's Hungarian Grand Prix pole lap
In-car footage of Red Bull driver Sebastian Vettel taking pole position for the Hungarian Grand Prix.

Hungary GP qualifying - Top three drivers
Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel praises the set-up of his car after taking pole ahead of team-mate Mark Webber and Ferrari's Fernando Alonso in qualfying for the Hungarian Grand Prix.

FIA Thursday press conference - Hungary
Drivers: Rubens Barrichello (Williams), Heikki Kovalainen (Lotus), Robert Kubica (Renault), Felipe Massa (Ferrari), Sakon Yamamoto (HRT)

FIA Friday press conference - Hungary
Team principals: Eric Boullier (Renault), Stefano Domenicali (Ferrari), Christian Horner (Red Bull) and Colin Kolles (HRT).

Qualifying - selected team and driver quotes
Virgin’s Timo Glock on setting the pace for the new teams after qualifying 19th; reigning champion Jenson Button on failing to make Q3 for McLaren; and Red Bull’s Sebastian Vettel on clinching his fourth consecutive pole position. All 24 drivers, and senior team personnel, review Saturday’s action at the Hungaroring…

 

[Duke]

Haha,

lols

Why the sudden outrage, well i say sudden since we've heard about this since Germany last weekend, But haven't Red Bull been running this spec wing for ages?

Yep

A photographer decides to take a few photo's of the front wings of Red Bull's and Ferrari's cars and suddenly everyones up in arms about it, OH MY GOD it touches the floor!

Well, now the spectators can see how much it is flexing, of course a few are shocked?

I don't see what the FIA can do about it, Both cars have passed the tests.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, I expect either nothing will be done about it this season unless some teams kick up a fuss about it - I think it may well be changed for next season though.

Red Bull's version seems the more extreme case though, Ferrari's version isn't even complete while Mclaren are nowhere to be seen.

Instead of complaining and spouting a bunch of crap on live tv, The others should copy.. If they know how to make it work.

Thats what they are doing. Mclaren have openly said they won't contest it, just try to copy it.

On another note, This race is going to be even worse in terms of hoping for a bit of action, Barcelona all over again.

Yep, just hoping for rain

 

[Duke]

Mercedes and Mclaren now seeking clarification on the front wings before committing development of them - http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85758

 

[dannyjo22]

They have no choice but to ban them sometime in the near future or run the risk of cars having them hit the ground again.

It would be stupid and unfair to have teams spend money for the next 7 races making them to ban them in the close season. Totally against the current money saving that f1 seems intent on.

The rule states 85mm so having them nearly hit the floor makes them a movable aero device or against the spirit of the intention of the ruling. To make them legal would open the floodgates to parts flexing all over the place.

 

[Glaucus]

Just been looking at the rulkes,
They can indeed change the rules on the fly. I am now totally unsure what the FIA will do now that teams have asked for clarification. Surley it has to be banned, it deflects more than it should, it is classed as movable aero and the rules allow change of testing. But I just can't see them banning it before the race, as they wont have stiff front wings.,

3.17.8 In order to ensure that the requirements of Article 3.15 are respected, the FIA reserves the right to introduce further load/deflection tests on any part of the bodywork which appears to be (or is suspected of), moving whilst the car is in motion.

This makes it totally different to f-duct or double diffuser which where loop holes.

This goes against deflection rules and the rules allow the fia to change the testing system at any time.

 

[NathanE]

How did you figure that when it was the new spec front wings that caused all the controversy at Silverstone for Red Bull?

That wasn't the flexiwing. It was just a minor revision of the flexiwing. It was worth about 0.1sec laptime, as we all saw, which is a pretty standard improvement for a new version front wing. The actual flexiwing concept since "v1.0" has been on the RBR since Bahrain.

 

[Glaucus]

I thought they had semi flex last year, just no where near as much.,

 

[NathanE]

I thought they had semi flex last year, just no where near as much.,

Could well be!

RBR's car was overshadowed last year by the Brawn but actually the RBR was clearly the better car once it had the DDD.

 

[dannyjo22]

Just been looking at the rulkes,
They can indeed change the rules on the fly. I am now totally unsure what the FIA will do now that teams have asked for clarification. Surley it has to be banned, it deflects more than it should, it is classed as movable aero and the rules allow change of testing. But I just can't see them banning it before the race, as they wont have stiff front wings.

Then they either should put off a ruling to after the race but tell Red Bull they are basically racing under investigation or rule them banned and give red bull a couple of hours to either have a wing or not race.

Personally looking at that rule you quote they should be banned. Its clearly deflecting and is a movable aero device. Unless of course the FIA knows the red bull movement is a lot deeper than the wing and are worried about how big a can of worms they are about to open

 

[hiroofheroes]

They have no choice but to ban them sometime in the near future or run the risk of cars having them hit the ground again.

It would be stupid and unfair to have teams spend money for the next 7 races making them to ban them in the close season. Totally against the current money saving that f1 seems intent on.

The rule states 85mm so having them nearly hit the floor makes them a movable aero device or against the spirit of the intention of the ruling. To make them legal would open the floodgates to parts flexing all over the place.

If the front wing, splitter and floor all flex you could get some pretty good ground effect.

I doubt it's 'just' the wings that flex, it's all part of a cumilative effect of the wing having some flex, the suspension hunkering down under load (again designed to pass the tests), and the floor flexing to allow it to run closer to the ground/with more rake without destroying the plank.

In the cases where these developments are within the rules ie. there is freedom as long as a test is passed, it's fine - but where it knowingly breaks a rule but passes a test then surely it should be banned. The problem would be that as it's a cumilative effect - each individual part may pass specific tests, but as a whole it may violate regulations.

 

[Glaucus]

In the cases where these developments are within the rules ie. there is freedom as long as a test is passed, it's fine - but where it knowingly breaks a rule but passes a test then surely it should be banned. The problem would be that as it's a cumilative effect - each individual part may pass specific tests, but as a whole it may violate regulations.

The flexi wing, isn't within the rules.

3.17.8 In order to ensure that the requirements of Article 3.15 are respected, the FIA reserves the right to introduce further load/deflection tests on any part of the bodywork which appears to be (or is suspected of), moving whilst the car is in motion.

3.15- must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car.

 

[Masterdog]

Update on Twitter from 'byronf1' (the Mirror's F1 correspondent):

The flexi-wing won't be oulawed but, I am told, there may be a clarificaiton later tonight to tighten up aspects of the rules

That was an hour ago and nobody else is reporting it yet, so the 'i am told' bit might be code for 'rumours suggest'

 

[FrankJH]

undoubtedly the FIA got the testing methodology wrong for the front wing

Whether its three parts all flexing a small amount to make one big accumulative effect or the front wing on its own - the front wing is still flexing as well as being below the minimum height off the ground the rules stipulate

The FIA should have told RBR yesterday you either change the front wing so it doesnt flex as much over night or you race under protest (Im not saying the former option gives them much time, but genuine photographic proof should be all thats required to show they are without doubt breaking the rules).

Its McLaren's/Mercedes fault for not protesting earlier (or "clarifying" the situation earlier) but upto this point all points for RBR are as safe as houses, but points from this race are open to question

If FIA allow the "flexi" wing - it makes a mockery of the budget constraints - as undoubtedly this will be disallowed by 2011 - yet the FIA are forcing McLaren and everyone else to develop the flexiwing (and however many millions of $$$ that will cost) for 1/2 dozen races

 

[Glaucus]

I reckon that will be right.

Let them race, then ban it over the summer break, where then can make a rigid wing.

Its McLaren's/Mercedes fault for not protesting earlier (or "clarifying" the situation earlier) but upto this point all points for RBR are as safe as houses, but points from this race are open to question

I am surprised, originally I thought it was because of a loop hole. But after reading the rules, it seems to clearly be illegal.

If FIA allow the "flexi" wing - it makes a mockery of the budget constraints - as undoubtedly this will be disallowed by 2011 - yet the FIA are forcing McLaren and everyone else to develop the flexiwing (and however many millions of $$$ that will cost) for 1/2 dozen races

It would not be mockery for that reason.

DD and F-duct are loop holes so nothing banning them in the rules, hence teams have to spend money to develop them.
However flexi wing seems ot be clearly against the rules and so would be a mockery in terms of FIA not following the rule book.

 

[hiroofheroes]

I agree that if the wing flexes, it should be banned - but my point was how can you test the car as a whole. It looks pretty obvious that the wings are a lot closer to the ground than regulations allow - but IF they are that close not just as a result of wing flexing, but as a result of a number of other components acting together under loads they're not subjected to under scrutineering tests how do you effectively police that?

Look at how close to the ground the Red Bull floor runs compared to the others - it's not just a flexi wing in play here.

 

[knip]

Ello people, was out yesterday so did I miss anything? Am I doing a rain dance for what is likely to be a snorefest

 

[Glaucus]

I agree that if the wing flexes, it should be banned - but my point was how can you test the car as a whole. It looks pretty obvious that the wings are a lot closer to the ground than regulations allow - but IF they are that close not just as a result of wing flexing, but as a result of a number of other components acting together under loads they're not subjected to under scrutineering tests how do you effectively police that?

By loading components up and adding them together.

For example if the floor gives 20mm under load and teh front wing a further 15mm under load. that would mean the front wing is in effect 35mm closer to the floor.

Ello people, was out yesterday so did I miss anything? Am I doing a rain dance for what is likely to be a snorefest

No and yes.

Pretty boring qauli, rbr are in a different league for what I reckon is to be there last where they have a clear lead.

 

[Locke]

Sigh, my page wouldn't load the video so I missed out on The Chain, bad times!

 

[Setroc]

Sigh, my page wouldn't load the video so I missed out on The Chain, bad times!

damn, I missed it too!