HUNGARORING - BUDAPEST - HUNGARY Grand Prix 2009 - Race 10/17

[JUMPURS]

At the time that most teams agreed to remove KERS, KERS cars werent performing great. In fact, at this time, I remember Ferrari's KERS system was causing serious problems, forcing Kimi to run without it. I remember BMW soon abandoned it. KERS wasnt great.

Fast forward a few months and KERS is now proving a fantastic weapon to have. Red Bull cars, as fast as they are, have 2 frustrated drivers who have no KERS and are making comments to suggest that they would like to have KERS, as they are getting battered on the long straights and start-lines.

I don't believe that any team (or principle) would willingly give up a weapon that is working so well and is helping move their cars up the grid, once the lights go green. If that principle is willing to forgoe performance, just so he is liked by other teams, that man should not be in charge of the team.

You have men in the factory who are working their backsides off, night and day, long shifts, not seeing their families/wives, etc, just so that their cars can gain a 0.1s/lap advantage and the principle is worried about a "genteleman's agreement". I for one, would be livid if I was a worker at McLaren's factory and they axe the KERS system, which I would've spent many hours developing, especially when I know that the KERS device is not illegal or banned.

I don't think McLaren will cry at losing KERS, neither will Ferrari.

Look at it this way, McLaren are using the same KERS they started the season with, it's not like they have changed that drastically, but the car itself has got much better. It is the same with Ferrari, they are better now without KERS than they where with it.

 

[Kenai]

There is no doubt that McLaren have agreed, verbally, to discontinue use of KERS in 2010. However, that means nothing if after the 2009 season ends, McLaren come to the conclusion that KERS is the greatest thing since sliced bread. If that happens, I can't see McLaren honouring their agreement with other FOTA teams.

The issue is not just causing a bit of hurt feelings and mistrust if they didn't though.

There would be a chance that the other FOTA teams would suspend them from the organisation, much like Williams and Force India have been. I wouldn't imagine this is a position McLaren want to put themselves in.

 

[JUMPURS]

Its not the lack of money this year thats killed them more the saving they made in wages by letting people go. That lack of personel is showing. It also shows why some sort of budget or personel cap is needed to give anyone a chance of competing with teams with several hundred more people.

Some would say lack of money is the reason they let people go

Brawn where ok when they built the car with Honda's pretty much limitless budget, but now it is their own money they are just like the other teams.

Lets not forget, the team who is currently making a charge in this championship is a privateer team, with what i imagine very little coming in from any outside sponsorship

 

[Dutch Guy]

KERS is only an advantage for McLaren/Ferrari now as long as they are the only ones using it, if every team would have it they would lose the advantage at the start and on the straights, therefore I doubt it will be a big loss for them.

 

[JUMPURS]

The issue is not just causing a bit of hurt feelings and mistrust if they didn't though.

There would be a chance that the other FOTA teams would suspend them from the organisation, much like Williams and Force India have been. I wouldn't imagine this is a position McLaren want to put themselves in.

Especially since their is still no new concord agreement. Wasn't FOTA's soul purpose to negotiate that?

 

[SC04]

Anyone else find it ludicrous, to see Alonso banned from a knee jerk reaction to a safety related human error, and yet so many people are excited about one of the most dangerous drivers in history possibly coming back?
On the plus side, he wont need to park up on a corner to stop Alonso getting pole.

 

[flat-6]

My 2c:

Alonso move would make sense other than that this leaves Renault with no drivers as they obviously intend to boot Piquet. MS has nothing to gain and all to lose driving the car again so can't see that happening. I think chances of a big name in the car in Valencia are slim.

KERS:

If McLaren and Ferrari are able to win with it they'll won't care what they agreed to verbally and run it if the rules allow.

 

[JUMPURS]

Anyone else find it ludicrous, to see Alonso banned from a knee jerk reaction to a safety related human error, and yet so many people are excited about one of the most dangerous drivers in history possibly coming back?
On the plus side, he wont need to park up on a corner to stop Alonso getting pole.

It's not a knee jerk reaction. That boy was killed last week by a stray wheel.

 

[Goksly]

If McLaren and Ferrari are able to win with it they'll won't care what they agreed to verbally and run it if the rules allow.

Not if they have signed an agreement with Fota... therefore its not in the rules, but they will be sued.

 

[howler]

As great as the enterainment would be if MS actually did drive for Ferrari I just really can't see it happening

 

[SC04]

It's not a knee jerk reaction. That boy was killed last week by a stray wheel.

People are killed in motorsport all the time. Most formulas dont have the same safety standards as F1 and F2 and those recent accidents have been complete freaks. What Renault did was human error that has never been punished, let alone so harshly before. Remember that tyre changes are only there to make F1 more exciting and for financial reasons. Renault have been made a scapegoat for good PR in the current climate.

 

[this_is_gav]

debris could be an endfence of a front wing - completely different to a *****off big wheel

I was referring to Renault being disqualified from a future event for a safety concern in the previous round. It's not going to remove that threat - it's already happened. Penalise them some other way - deduct points, give a suspended sentence, disqualify them. Removing them from Valencia isn't going to make the Hungarian race any safer.

could be considered leniant if someone had been killed by that wheel that ended up god knows where under its own steam

I hope the book gets thrown at them for being so ****** arrogant and continueing

Where's the arrogance in trying to get a damaged car back to the pitlane? Did you say the same about Vettel for continuing?

hows that the day before? If Brawn have admitted to knowing about it DURING Qualifying and the event happened within the hour - its clearly not the day before

If you are talking about two seperate circumstances (ie the wheel and the spring) there is no connection at all

There's a rather obvious connection when it's in response to this quote:

Show me another situation where a team has knowingly sent a dangerous car out onto track and made no attempt to prevent it leaving the pit or even inform the driver of the risk....

Talk about going from one extreme to another - an INTERNAL spring works its way onto the track and bounces along (probably with the assistance of the cross winds) the track and tracigally injurs a driver - thats completely different to a wheel wieghing 20 times more OBVIOUSLY loose as soon as its released unsafely from the pits

Read the above quote from Skeeter that I was responding to, then read mine again.

Regardless, I still maintain there was nothing immediately obvious about it. The lollipop man couldn't have known when he released the car (though he might have realised soon afterwards that he hadn't checked for the signal from right-front tyre-changers, though there is little to suggest so from the actions of the team all moving back into the garage) and Alonso only knew when he braked for turn 1. There was nothing visual that the wheel was loose until he was going through turn 2 - the cover was the only other visual clue, and that was only clearly seen through turn 1, though if you watch again it starts moving as he leaves the pitlane... which is quite a distance from being released.

 

[SC04]

Hardly. MS was a different class to LH imo.

Difficult to say when MS made his name against Senna's number 2 and Mika Hakkinen who took nearly 100 races to record his first win.
IMO, greatness is best measured in battles with other great drivers. MS drove in one of the easiest eras in F1 and still demanded special circumstances and still cracked under pressure many times. For a different class of driver to LH you need to go back to Senna, Prost, Piquet and Mansell era.

 

[JUMPURS]

People are killed in motorsport all the time. Most formulas dont have the same safety standards as F1 and F2 and those recent accidents have been complete freaks. What Renault did was human error that has never been punished, let alone so harshly before. Remember that tyre changes are only there to make F1 more exciting and for financial reasons. Renault have been made a scapegoat for good PR in the current climate.

Renault are not getting punished for the wheel being lose, **** happens. They are being punished for knowingly allowing an unsafe car on the track. It could have killed their own driver, let alone someone else.

 

[Duke]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77393

lol @ Piquets comments on Briatore

 

[Dutch Guy]

People are killed in motorsport all the time. Most formulas dont have the same safety standards as F1 and F2 and those recent accidents have been complete freaks. What Renault did was human error that has never been punished, let alone so harshly before. Remember that tyre changes are only there to make F1 more exciting and for financial reasons. Renault have been made a scapegoat for good PR in the current climate.

The biggest mistake Renault made was that they let Alonso leave the pitlane knowing the wheel wasn't fixed properly, meaning any incident that might have happened was avoidable.

And obviously after what happened to Surtees and Massa the rules regarding loose objects are followed a little more strictly

 

[MarcLister]

I don't think McLaren will cry at losing KERS, neither will Ferrari.

Look at it this way, McLaren are using the same KERS they started the season with, it's not like they have changed that drastically, but the car itself has got much better. It is the same with Ferrari, they are better now without KERS than they where with it.

Amen.

The issue is not just causing a bit of hurt feelings and mistrust if they didn't though.

There would be a chance that the other FOTA teams would suspend them from the organisation, much like Williams and Force India have been. I wouldn't imagine this is a position McLaren want to put themselves in.

Where were you earlier?

 

[Dup]

Just becasue it's happened in the past without issue, two people have been in a death situation, one luckier than the other within 7 days. The officials have to take that as a serious hint that safety concerning stray foreign objects on the circuit isn't being taken seriously enough.

They are freak accidents, but the Renualt situation was one that could have been avoided and could potentially have been another life cut short. We live in a world of fast dramatic media and this puts the officials in a very difficult position. Although a fine would have been more apt, people know F1 teams are loaded and for Renault that's probably a drop in the ocean. It would not have been a strong enough message that safety is taken seriosuly considering one family is grieving and one is sat in the hospital filled with worry.

 

[Dutch Guy]

I see it as a wake up call for the FIA regarding loose objects, I can remember a marshall being hit by a loose wheel and died not so long ago.

 

[dannyjo22]

I see it as a wake up call for the FIA regarding loose objects, I can remember a marshall being hit by a loose wheel and died not so long ago.

That was completely different. A huge accident between 2 cars, there's no way you can account for that. Alonso though was released onto the track with a known loose wheel.