HUNGARORING - BUDAPEST - HUNGARY Grand Prix 2009 - Race 10/17

SC04 said:
It's not that everyone loves them, just thats were the money will be in the not too distant future.
When we are forced to drive Green cars, I think people will wish KERS had been developed to its optimum.
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Under current rules they can't perfect kers. IMO. f1 needs a massive rule change to include any type of fuel source. If companies want to devlop an electric car that is faster, let them.

Just have limits say on fuel weight. Be it liquid,gas,electric or whatever.
 
Type_R said:
Just watch his first qualifying against Senna (the greatest & most complete F1 driver to date in my book). Enough said.
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How does one qualifying make a driver great? I remember Mansell blitzing both Hill and Schumacher in qualifying for Adelaide, after retiring 2 years earlier.
Senna was in a different league to schumacher, but was still made to work by other great drivers. Schumacher was made to work by both of Senna's number 2s, and cracked under pressure too many times, enough said.
 
Nothing to prove? How about the big one, like racing a team mate equally? Instead of retiring and robbing his fans, as soon as Luca grabbed Kimi from McLaren. The true greats measured themselves equally against each other e.g Mansell, Prost, Senna. And they are the classic races to watch. Not Rubens pulling over or Massa faking gearbox problems to let him past. Schumacher won all his WCs against average opposition in many peoples views and restricted team mates, but they still consider him to be a great due to his stats.
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all credibility was lost right there.

senna didnt want people who would race against him on the same team, ms had to race people to get where he was anyway he didnt enter every series of motorsport and auto be the #1 driver in every team he raced for.
 
AcidHell2 said:
Under current rules they can't perfect kers. IMO. f1 needs a massive rule change to include any type of fuel source. If companies want to devlop an electric car that is faster, let them.

Just have limits say on fuel weight. Be it liquid,gas,electric or whatever.
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I've heard some engineers talk about the size and weight of the KERS package will be/has been improved. I know Max tries to have a positive effect on road cars, he is just too power hungry/busy threatening people to engage his brain sometimes.
 
arknor said:
all credibility was lost right there.

senna didnt want people who would race against him on the same team, ms had to race people to get where he was anyway he didnt enter every series of motorsport and auto be the #1 driver in every team he raced for.
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What a moron! Senna wanted to race the best without advantages. The opposite of schumacher. There's a documentary with him talking about it somewhere.
If I wanted credibility I would invite you to the race track next weekend.
 
Slam62 said:
Well he vetoed Derick Warwick in the Lotus team I believe
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In-team fighting happens all the time and of course each driver wants the best treatment and they work hard to get it. Schumacher was simply insecure and was happy to win unfairly and have a team and tyre company built around him. Something that I don't remember any other driver having the privilege of.
 
JRS said:
It used to work rather well - turbo runners versus DFVs. You'd need to use the rulebook to give each side of the formula advantages and disadvantages obviously, some days and tracks one design will probably come out on top, other days and tracks will see the other design come to the fore.

Not sure I understand your point about it costing lots of money - KERS hasn't exactly been an exercise in cost-cutting (aside from those who never bothered developing it in the first place of course....), and turbocharging is a pretty well understood technology these days. And at least it's a technology that can actually tie into road car design and production properly.
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Equivalency doesn't work too well in either WTCC or Le Mans.

As for money, well the top teams will spend a shed load evaluating all the alternatives, then if one team comes up with a solution which is obviously better than the rest once under race conditions the other teams will then have to follow suit. The v10 restriction was bought in to prevent teams using unobtainium to build v12s which would have been as light and compact as the v10s but with significantly more power.

Even now with the tight restrictions the Mercedes engine is obviously way more economical than the Renault, Lewis running 2 laps longer than expected (as did the Brawn at the start of the season) and both top Renault powered cars pitting early. The other engine makers are going to have to do something.

KERs is interesting in that Brawn decided not to bother as the packaging would have compromised the aero (for no gain) and BMW dropped theirs when it wouldn't fit the new design, yet McLaren and Ferrari now have systems which within a decent aero package. As for tying into road cars both BMW and Mercedes are releasing bluemotion versions of their 3ltr ish petrols which feature a slightly larger than standard battery and a large electric motor which provides a 140lbft torque boost. They are faster than the equivalent petrol and 50% more economical.
 
Housey said:
Senna did that not because he feared Warwick as a driver, he did that because he felt an English driver in an English team would get better treatment from the team than he would.
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same thing as making sure you are the #1 driver? really annoys me when people go on about senna beeing whiter than schumacher when in reality they were both very similar.

they were both ruthless and only cared about winning no matter the cost
 
MarcLister said:
I agree. In my opinion it is very hard to describe Senna as godlike without including Schumacher in that as they were similar people in terms of their desire to win, and how they got their wins.
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Does anyone remember if Senna participated in cheating?
I know he and the people around him, claimed that he wanted to be measured with the best, so would have rejected the idea which is quite the opposite of schumacher.
I certainly dont think he would have obstructed the track, to say, stop Mansell or Prost setting a better time. Let alone bothered testing tracton control when it was banned.
 
arknor said:
same thing as making sure you are the #1 driver? really annoys me when people go on about senna beeing whiter than schumacher when in reality they were both very similar.

they were both ruthless and only cared about winning no matter the cost
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Who talks about senna being Whiter than schumacher? I remember Senna being disliked, and yes he was hard and ruthless but dont remember him being caught cheating several times or punished for ignoring rules. Their personalities were quite different. Although all F1 drivers are similar in many ways.
 
SC04 said:
Does anyone remember if Senna participated in cheating?
I know he and the people around him, claimed that he wanted to be measured with the best, so would have rejected the idea which is quite the opposite of schumacher.
I certainly dont think he would have obstructed the track, to say, stop Mansell or Prost setting a better time. Let alone bothered testing tracton control when it was banned.
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What like forcing Prost off the track? Suzuka 1990? Could be seen as cheating.
 
arknor said:
all credibility was lost right there.

senna didnt want people who would race against him on the same team, ms had to race people to get where he was anyway he didnt enter every series of motorsport and auto be the #1 driver in every team he raced for.
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Senna became Prost's team-mate, in 1988(McLaren) two top drivers racing.

And MS was a cheat....
 
arknor said:
same thing as making sure you are the #1 driver? really annoys me when people go on about senna beeing whiter than schumacher when in reality they were both very similar.

they were both ruthless and only cared about winning no matter the cost
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Maybe off the track, but did you ever see Senna park his car in the middle of the Monaco track?
Did you ever see Senna turn his broken down car into another?
Did you ever see Senna get his team to MAKE his team mate pull over so he can take first?

I could go on..

But what he did do was drive like a true champ
he overtook 5 cars on the first lap in the rain and one of them was MS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t8QMyuGhdE
 
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