HUNGARORING - BUDAPEST - HUNGARY Grand Prix 2009 - Race 10/17

SC04 said:
Does anyone remember if Senna participated in cheating?
I know he and the people around him, claimed that he wanted to be measured with the best, so would have rejected the idea which is quite the opposite of schumacher.
I certainly dont think he would have obstructed the track, to say, stop Mansell or Prost setting a better time. Let alone bothered testing tracton control when it was banned.
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Senna wasnt really a cheat, he was just a hard racer, sometimes unfairly. People have said since that if senna was trying to get past you, he was going to get past, whether you were still in the race or not. He got a lot of respect for it though.
deuse said:
Senna became Prost's team-mate, in 1988(McLaren) two top drivers racing.

And MS was a cheat....
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Are you having a giraffe? what about La Rascasse at Monaco? what about knocking Hill off in 94? What about running with TC when it was banned?
 
SC04 said:
Senna was in a different league to schumacher, but was still made to work by other great drivers. Schumacher was made to work by both of Senna's number 2s, and cracked under pressure too many times, enough said.
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Easy tiger.

Lets rewind to 1994.

Race1: Senna spun off, while leading. MS wins.
Race2: Senna gets knocked off the track. MS wins.
Race3: Senna is leading and pushing the car harder and harder. MS is persuing closely behind. In order to stay ahead he pushed a little too hard and ended up going off (and dying in the process). MS wins.

MS and Senna did compete against eachother in 1994, albeit for 3 races and MS won all 3 races. And this was in a time when MS certainly was not anywhere near his peak.

MS's peak came when he moved to Ferrari. It was a dangerous move that few top drivers had ever done, ie. move from a title winning car/team, to a has been team (Ferrari hadnt won the WDC since 1979). MS took the risk and it paid off, where he was instrumental in making Ferrari the best team in F1 again. Even Senna didnt do anything like this. Senna would always want to be in the best car at any given time, as did Prost.

When MS moved to Ferrari, the general feeling was that it was a really bad move and that he would not win a single title with Ferrari, as the task was just too difficult...even for the best driver in F1. These critics were proved wrong.

Sorry dude, but MS WAS the most complete driver in F1 we have ever seen, thus far. If you want to amass big points totals, MS would be the driver you want in your team. As for who his No.2 would be...take your pick.
 
Senna wasnt really a cheat, he was just a hard racer, sometimes unfairly. People have said since that if senna was trying to get past you, he was going to get past, whether you were still in the race or not. He got a lot of respect for it though.
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im sure he once said something along those lines about defending his position wether it meant you were finishing the race or not ;)
 
sunama said:
Easy tiger.

Lets rewind to 1994.

Race1: Senna spun off, while leading. MS wins.
Race2: Senna gets knocked off the track. MS wins.
Race3: Senna is leading and pushing the car harder and harder. MS is persuing closely behind. In order to stay ahead he pushed a little too hard and ended up going off (and dying in the process). MS wins.

MS and Senna did compete against eachother in 1994, albeit for 3 races and MS won all 3 races. And this was in a time when MS certainly was not anywhere near his peak.

MS's peak came when he moved to Ferrari. It was a dangerous move that few top drivers had ever done, ie. move from a title winning car/team, to a has been team (Ferrari hadnt won the WDC since 1979). MS took the risk and it paid off, where he was instrumental in making Ferrari the best team in F1 again. Even Senna didnt do anything like this. Senna would always want to be in the best car at any given time, as did Prost.

When MS moved to Ferrari, the general feeling was that it was a really bad move and that he would not win a single title with Ferrari, as the task was just too difficult...even for the best driver in F1. These critics were proved wrong.

Sorry dude, but MS WAS the most complete driver in F1 we have ever seen, thus far. If you want to amass big points totals, MS would be the driver you want in your team. As for who his No.2 would be...take your pick.
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Theres a few myths in there, lets get a few facts right ;)

Senna was settling into a new team.
The 94 Williams had a design fault and was not as good as people make out. Spookily Senna had already given Hill some advice on the corner he went off on, but still pushed to the limits himself, the car wasnt up to it.
The Benetton was later found to be illegal and Benetton fined for it.
Hill pushed schumacher to the end, its more than likely so would have Senna despite problems with the car and settling in. Schumacher was already well settled in his team and this can make a big difference in F1.

ferrari were the 3rd best team when schumacher moved there, 3rd is by no means a bad team with a win and pole positions. Probably a better Ferrari than Alonso will join next year. Schumacher knew he would be taking the genius Ross Brawn with him amoung other staff, so it wasnt a bad move at all.

Sorry dude, but schumacher drove in the easiest era of F1 and was assisted greatly in many areas. Including having most of his important position changes done in the pits with new rules. Not to mention a lot more luck than Mansell and Senna ever saw. Mansell would have had 2 more WCs without the bad luck taht followed him, let alone beng gifted more. Senna would have owned the rest of the 1990s in Williams. Schumacher was a genius, but got his arse handed to him as soon as someone with real talent got a competitive car.
 
Children children, can we all stop the Senna is better than MS and vice-versa, we all have our own opinions on who is the best driver ever and as we (unfortunatly) will never see Senna and MS race together on equal terms and in the same cars lets just shut the **** about it ;)

I hate MS with a passion, but I know that Senna was know angel, as Prost put it to Senna "If you want the championship so much that you are willing to die for, it's yours" Senna pushed to limit and beyond on many occasions pushing poor cars to unbeleivable finishing places, but then was a different era with less safety features and less concern for others.

Nowadays drivers don't know how to push to the limit like they did back then.

Can someone remove the bickering to a new thread and close this one?
 
Kubica goes where then? I'm assuming the BMW board would want to sell off the team to someone rather than close it down as that would cost a lot of Euros. Peter Sauber to come back in? :p
 
Well they've dropped out of F1 for 10 years before, no big surprise.
So Sauber may stay and end up with Cosworth engines, if they are coming in?
 
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SoliD said:
I would have no idea, maybe Ferrari if Massa doesnt come back alongside Fernando?
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Hmm. I'm a Kimi-ist/Kimi-ite so if Massa doesn't come back I'd rather Kimi/Alonso. :cool:

But then I'm biased as they are my two favourite drivers in F1 right now. ;)

SC04 said:
Well they've dropped out of F1 for 10 years before, no big surprise.
So Sauber may stay and end up with Cosworth engines, if they are coming in?
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If Peter Sauber took control of the team I wouldn't mind betting that he'd either demand BMW engines for a season or two or that BMW would have to tempt a prospective buyer with the guarantee of engines for a season or two.
 
MarcLister said:
Hmm. I'm a Kimi-ist/Kimi-ite so if Massa doesn't come back I'd rather Kimi/Alonso. :cool:

But then I'm biased as they are my two favourite drivers in F1 right now. ;)

If Peter Sauber took control of the team I wouldn't mind betting that he'd either demand BMW engines for a season or two or that BMW would have to tempt a prospective buyer with the guarantee of engines for a season or two.
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I prefered Kimi at Sauber, very few seem to get on that well with McLaren and Ferrari doesn't seem to suit him any more. Can't imagine him alongside Alonso for some reason.
 
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