In your white example, you're assuming something about the world
In your Asian example, you're assuming something about the person
Is it ok to be proud to be white?
- Thread starter rubberduck
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In your Asian example, you're assuming something about the person
I'm sure if I made a sweeping and incorrect generalisatiom about an ethnicity other than whites and then claimed it was a 'humorous jibe' you would be similarly as accommodating as you are suggesting I should be?
No you're not. I am white, you are assuming that I will never or have never been discriminated against because I'm white. I AM A PERSON. You are assuming something about me, and all other white people because of their skin colour.
White people clearly are being discriminated against because of their skin colour, and the clear evidence of that is you!
Unless you have any evidence that the police are actively trying to not recruit black people then it is rather irrelevant. The point still stands.
You've not provided any clarification there and you seem to have ignored the point made in the post. If as the BBC has done, you specifically recruit only people from non-white backgrounds into a training role then that provides a clear, unambiguous advantage to people wanting to go into that line of work. You haven't provided any argument agains that other than to again just point to general demographics and those can be the result of any number of factors not to mention can have a bit of a lag when it comes to them changing over time as a previous generation of a profession reaches retirement etc..
But that wouldn't be me judging you, it would be me judging how the world has acted towards you. That's not a judgement of your character or worth. It's not discrimination.
And I'm not saying YOU have never experience discrimination, but rather than white people as a whole don't face disadvantage due to their race, compared with other races.
The point that white people are disadvantaged in terms of working for the police? How does that still stand when I've pointed out that white people are over represented in the police?
My point was that on a societal level, 'positive discrimination' is not discrimination if it doesn't even level the playing field.
This all started with my statement that:
So we're talking society wide. You keep trying to narrow down to specifics, as is your preference in any of all your unending arguments on here. But that's not what we're talking about. Think macro, not micro.
At no point did I say that there was no such thing as an impoverished white dude, nor would I ever be so stupid as to actually assume that where the case. It was more a joke based on the fact that white English men LITERALLY ruled over a large portion of the world at one stage not so long ago. Not too mention that many of the worlds most prominent and profitable industries are still to this day helmed by white dudes.
Can tell you're one of those posters who's just constantly spoiling for a fight. Didn't once ask me for a more nuanced opinion on any of this in your initial reply and you INSTANTLY made assumptions about my character based on a reply that was obviously meant to be more humorous then serious.
Fine, back to my format above:
"I assume that the world doesn't discriminate against you because you're white"
You are making assumptions about me, and other people based on their skin colour.
How you don't think this is racist is truly baffling.
Yes you are. You said above that white people aren't disadvantaged due to their skin colour. I am white, therefore by your rule (assumption) I will not be disadvantaged due to my skin colour. You are just straight up lying now.
One last time:
I'm not judging you, i'm judging the world around you.
And, really, I'm not judging the world around individuals either, but the world around a whole race of people.
You are making assumptions (preemptive judgements -> ergo prejudice) about people based on their race. Yes or no?
No
I've explained it over an over. You don't seem able to get it.
Why do you believe that being overrepresented negate the fact they can be disadvantaged against in recruitment?
Why should the employment choices of other people from the same "race" be allowed to negatively impact their own?
I was asking you to clarify because your argument is unclear. You're still seemingly basing an argument on current demographics. What playing field are you trying to level - in what context? You seemingly can't answer as again you just want to make some handwaving argument where we all assume as a given that there is rampant discrimination and no other factors for differing demographics within jobs etc...
I don't understand how these don't contradict:
If you can't see that you're contradicting yourself and you are in fact (if you truly believe the words you type) racist against white people then I've done all I can. Good luck living a life believing that every white person you see has never been racially discriminated against by 'the world' purely because you can see what colour skin they have.
Because if you take a black baby and you take a white baby, one of those has a higher chance of joining the police as an adult than the other. And it's not the black baby.
Ergo, white people are not disadvantaged in society when it come to joining the police.
Trying to narrow down to just a very specific point is simply a way of avoiding discussing the issue we started with here. You are still trying to engage in a different discussion. I'm sure you'll keep going in perpetuity, because that's what you do (go ahead).
Caporegime
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It’s rather correct to assume that someone from the UK is wealthier than someone from Algeria, it’s also correct to note that both have very high majorities of respective ethnicities.
It’s incorrect to assume that white males in the UK are at an advantage (now) because they’re white or indeed male, correct to assume they are disadvantaged by various ‘positive discriminations’.
People are naturally prejudiced via preconceptions based on reality/stereotype, the vast majority of the west is incredibly wealthy and incredibly white, so it’s just connecting the dots. Even the poorest white person (more correct in Europe tbf) is likely to be well above that of most of the worlds, just because their surrounding area is plagued with war/famine/poverty. The west has a lot of floating wealth just lying around, lost or given away, and being given a pound, dollar or euro is vastly beyond being given some other currencies (though I guess this point is a bit worthless really as a poor british person won’t be spending their pity pounds in Russia or Mongolia).
However that poverty usually means things are cheap and/or there’s religious charity (like Sikh temples) that will handle some of it.
(Before you try it, if you will, IQ tests are invalid measurements)
It's irrelevant.
If I make an assumption about all white people, or if I make an assumption about an individual white person, purely because they're white, it's equally abhorrent. If anything judging the group rather than the individual is even worse!
And the classic case is to swap out 'white people' for any other race and see if you'd take issue with it or not.
To OP;
I'm not a proud person period. However, I acknowledge and can recognise when I have accomplished something using the little quality and skill that I possess.
I'm struggling to see why an individual would be proud solely on their own race and/or ethnicity. Then again, my own short-comings and inabilities should not prevent others from having such feelings if it helps them and others project themselves in a positive way.
I'm not a proud person period. However, I acknowledge and can recognise when I have accomplished something using the little quality and skill that I possess.
I'm struggling to see why an individual would be proud solely on their own race and/or ethnicity. Then again, my own short-comings and inabilities should not prevent others from having such feelings if it helps them and others project themselves in a positive way.