Is it ok to be proud to be white?

Admiral Huddy said:
Come in late to this thread but the fact you had to ask in the first place and have made it an issue, then yes, you are.. Your pride makes you feel superior to another group, which is discriminating and prejudice, the true definition of being racist. So the question is why do you feel the need to be proud of being white, black, pink, or mauve? You are who you are.

The only thing I take pride in is the things that myself, my family and friends have achieved.
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JunglistE said:
I think it's a fine line. Being proud of your race is one thing but being proud in your culture is another. As a black man I am no more proud of being black than I am of being right handed. I just happened to be born this way. But I am proud of the cultures I come from both Jamaican and British. They both make me who I am.

So yes, it's completely fine to be proud of being white. I just don't know what you'd be proud of vs being proud of the culture that made you who you are. If that makes sense, which i doubt! :D

edit: Looking over this, proud is a strange word to use really. I feel proud when I've accomplished something. I didn't attempt to be born black and british so I'm not sure I'm proud of either trait but I'm certainly not ashamed by either trait either
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Then do tell me when the English stand up for their International games singing God Save the Queen including some of the players, why are they being patriotic and proud of their team and identity just like all the other International teams when some hold their hands on their hearts. Just like America as the team members sing their national anthem. Is that shameful to be proud of?

What about snobbery? That can be classed as racism, being superior over another.
 
bloodiedathame said:
My opinion is that patriotism and nationalism are daft. The pomp of it all makes me laugh.
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I'd love to see you scream at all the fans with a megaphone in those stadiums singing their anthems to see their reactions of what you think of them. Whether it's football, rugby, World and Euro cups as well as the Olympics flying their flags representing their countries in their team colours. You know that thing they all feel proud about.
 
V F said:
I'd love to see you scream at all the fans with a megaphone in those stadiums singing their anthems to see their reactions of what you think of them. Whether it's football, rugby, World and Euro cups as well as the Olympics flying their flags representing their countries in their team colours. You know that thing they all feel proud about.
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I'm happy for the players to feel proud of their achievements, playing for your country is a superb accolade. I like my sports, I follow our national teams and enjoy the Olympics etc. Am I proud of the teams? Am I proud of the individuals? It feels like pride but it's the wrong word. Maybe pride is one of those words like 'love' and 'hero' that have ended up being used in place of other more suitable words.
 
DrToffnar said:
Can tell you're one of those posters who's just constantly spoiling for a fight. Didn't once ask me for a more nuanced opinion on any of this in your initial reply and you INSTANTLY made assumptions about my character based on a reply that was obviously meant to be more humorous then serious.
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I don't need to make quick assumptions lacking nuance about you. You have previous for peddling the trope of white privellege

DrToffnar said:
No one was offended. If anyone white man was, get over it. You're a man and you're white, you've already made more progress then most will in there lives by default xD
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So are you going to try another angle now?

We have had the "it was just bants" excuse and now the 'stop attacking me it's your fault you didn't spot the nuance' line
 
Being proud of your skin colour seems like a bizarre idea to me. Being proud of your country and/or culture and its achievements however, I can get that.

I do cringe when I see, for example, "black and proud" on msm articles because it seems divisive and regressive to me. Not to mention the aforementioned double standards.
 
Narj said:
Being proud of your skin colour seems like a bizarre idea to me. Being proud of your country and/or culture and its achievements however, I can get that.

I do cringe when I see, for example, "black and proud" on msm articles because it seems divisive and regressive to me. Not to mention the aforementioned double standards.
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The double standard exists for a reason. People who were black were made to feel ashamed of that fact for a very long time, and you could argue it still goes on. Therefore they are trying to 'own' their blackness rather than being made to feel ashamed and inferior by it.

Its a wee bit different to a rich white guy moaning about double standards! (im not saying you are any of those things, just pointing it out).
 
rubberduck said:
Or does that automatically make you racist?

I do not think that this would ever be acceptable for a white person to say. What do you think?
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I don't think it's "proud" to be anything you didn't do.

Pride in something that was not your doing is pointless. Which is why it's pointless being proud of a country or a colour.
 
Double07 said:
The double standard exists for a reason. People who were black were made to feel ashamed of that fact for a very long time, and you could argue it still goes on. Therefore they are trying to 'own' their blackness rather than being made to feel ashamed and inferior by it.

Its a wee bit different to a rich white guy moaning about double standards! (im not saying you are any of those things, just pointing it out).
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We can resort to petty whataboutery if we really want to but as I say, I find that regressive. Especially in Europe. Do we really want to let a pendulum effect go full cycle?

I just hate identity politics and think it's poisonous for our society and I wish that 'colour' was an irrelevant factor. We should all judge others on their actions. That means I'm allowed to have my own prejudices based on experience (hopefully) without being racist which is nice.

A large proportion of my social circle are of a different ethnicity to me and we've had frank conversations about this kind of stuff. To be honest it's far more productive than divisive crap in social or mainsteam media. For example I can say to my "indian" mates, "I'm sorry if called you a p**i as a kid" and they'll accept it because they know I was ignorant and just following the lead of my grandparents back then.

Sorry for rant, it's just that this, "them and us" stuff really grinds on me.
 
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jas72 said:
I don't think it's "proud" to be anything you didn't do.

Pride in something that was not your doing is pointless. Which is why it's pointless being proud of a country or a colour.
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Well you can be proud of being part of an achievement, as you see it, without actually being responsible for it I suppose. For example people could be proud for being
Narj said:
We can resort to petty whataboutery if we really want to but as I say, I find that regressive. Especially in Europe. Do we really want to let a pendulum effect go full cycle?

I just hate identity politics and think it's poisonous for our society and I wish that 'colour' was an irrelevant factor. We should all judge others on their actions. That means I'm allowed to have my own prejudices based on experience (hopefully) without being racist which is nice.

A large proportion of my social circle are of a different ethnicity to me and we've had frank conversations about this kind of stuff. To be honest it's far more productive than divisive crap in social or mainsteam media. For example I can say to my "indian" mates, "I'm sorry if called you a p**i as a kid" and they'll accept it because they know I was ignorant and just following the lead of my grandparents back then.

Sorry for rant, it's just that this, "them and us" stuff really grinds on me.
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I do not disagree, I am merely pointing out why black people might have a different reason to say they are proud to be black is all. I would never say I am proud to be white/british/scottish/male, although I AM all those things for better or worse, because I dont think they are particularly important in defining me, however that does not stop me from understanding that certain groups might well choose to express pride in their colour as it represents something entirely different to them, and could arguably be justified in doing so. Equally I am sure there are plenty of black people who just say "Nah, f it I don't really care either way"

I moved to England when I was young, primary school age, and I got pelters for being Scottish. I realise that this isn't quite the same thing, but I had the luxury of simply being able to quickly change my accent (especially easy given my young age) and no-one even knew I was Scottish unless they got to know me and then it was less about slagging me off, or attempting to anyway, and more about being interested in Scotland, etc. I did still have to speak Scottish in the house though so that was kinda awkward when friends came round and I asked them if they wanted a can of ginger (we call fizzy drinks, ginger in Scotland) and they looked at you like you were an utter weirdo! I digress I know but TLDR I agree with you, I was merely pointing something out :)
 
Narj said:
It's all good buddy, I'm looking to move to Scotland so I'll probably get all the hassle the other way around :)

Iz it cos I is Engerlish
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Nah it's cause you sold your council house in London and bought a castle up here ;)

You will always get the odd muppet that gives you crap for being English up here, but its 99% banter and people couldn't care less if you're English. Like Renton said in Trainspotting " Some people hate the English. I don’t. They’re just w**kers. We, on the other hand, are COLONISED by w**kers. Can’t even find a decent culture to be colonised BY! Sums up our self loathing quite nicely :)
 
cheesyboy said:
'Pride' when applied to being black ('Black Pride') or gay ('Gay Pride'), for example, is not at all about feeling superior to other groups. It's about promoting these traditionally maligned, or marginalised, or suppressed groups as being as worthy as the dominating groups (straight/white etc).
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All the biological group pride advocates say that, up to and including the most famous example of that ideology, the Nazis. It's silly propaganda, though some of the probably believe it. At least the Nazis were honest about the superiority part as well, while still portraying the biological group they advocated for as being maligned, marginalised and suppressed by the biological groups they targetted.

Biological group pride is entirely about irrational prejudice and feeling superior. That's what it's for - nobody feels proud of seeing themself as being equal to "The Other" and hardly anyone who believes in biological group identity sees the biological group identities they don't favour as being equal to the ones they do favour. People who believe "they're all the same" (which is what a belief in biological group identity is) sometimes believe in "seperate but equal" (which is what belief in biological group identity without belief in superiority is), but it rarely if ever holds up to any examination.

Next time you meet a "white" male homeless person (most of them are "white" and male) huddled in a doorway, will you tell them they're dominant and privileged? Or will you ask them if they're straight first?
 
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