But I'm not making assumptions about white people. I'm making assertions based on the world around them.
Saying Scottish people deal with more **** weather isn't a judgement on Scots. It's a judgement on their **** weather.
Is it ok to be proud to be white?
- Thread starter rubberduck
- Start date
Saying Scottish people deal with more **** weather isn't a judgement on Scots. It's a judgement on their **** weather.
Fine by me if you can't see you're contradicting yourself @cheesyboy
That is a bit closer to the generalisation that you are trying to make, I think. In most of Africa it would be probably be wrong, in China or Japan it would probably be wrong, in most of the Middle East it would probably be wrong. But in a predominantly white (caucasian?) country yes there could be an advantage to be or look similar to the majority population. I am making no rights or wrongs here, just stating probabilities.
midget
196cm very proud
Are you proud of the guy that invented the table? or a shower head? or 100s of millions of random things that have nothing to do with you?
These are things out of the little mans control you are born where you are born and theres little way of getting out of that.
This is simply flawed:
Just because lots of people from X group are in Y profession doesn't imply that people from X group aren't at a disadvantage when wanting to joint that profession.
I mean nursing is dominated by women - do you think that implies that say young men are disadvantaged against these days when applying for jobs as a nurse? According to your argument above it does.
I'd be inclined to assume that the opposite is more likely to be true but the demographics themselves don't tell us either way. You're basing an argument around the demographics and drawing an implication from them that is unsupported.
Not at all, I'm trying to actually have a meaningful discussion, you're actively avoiding any clarity and indeed valid points/objections being raised to the generalisations you're making and the implicit assumptions you seem to be relying on. If you're going to argue on the side of irrational prejudice then it is of course useful to you to keep things vague and ambiguous in order to obstificate what is a rather weak position. To try and paint this as me avoiding discussion when I'm doing the very opposite of avoiding it and am actively encouraging you to both clarify and justify your pov is rather silly.
I'd absolutely say that men are disadvantaged in society when it comes to going into the nursing profession. Discouraged, structurally, from a young age. It's a good illustration of the point with the police.
I think it's a fine line. Being proud of your race is one thing but being proud in your culture is another. As a black man I am no more proud of being black than I am of being right handed. I just happened to be born this way. But I am proud of the cultures I come from both Jamaican and British. They both make me who I am.
So yes, it's completely fine to be proud of being white. I just don't know what you'd be proud of vs being proud of the culture that made you who you are. If that makes sense, which i doubt!
edit: Looking over this, proud is a strange word to use really. I feel proud when I've accomplished something. I didn't attempt to be born black and british so I'm not sure I'm proud of either trait but I'm certainly not ashamed by either trait either
So yes, it's completely fine to be proud of being white. I just don't know what you'd be proud of vs being proud of the culture that made you who you are. If that makes sense, which i doubt!
edit: Looking over this, proud is a strange word to use really. I feel proud when I've accomplished something. I didn't attempt to be born black and british so I'm not sure I'm proud of either trait but I'm certainly not ashamed by either trait either
Well you're not talking about discrimination from the profession itself but rather perceptions from within society and their impact.
Why should that mean that say men should be given an unfair advantage when applying to a nursing job or black people should be given an unfair advantage when applying to the police - as that is what you seem to be supporting?
Or indeed why should it mean that any advantage given on the basis of the gender or race of the applicant isn't unfair?
Yes, finally!
I did ask you to clarify a few times not to mention you haven't actually answered the questions or provided any justification for your views.
I've never understood why anyone, white, black, male, female or whatever else would want to be given a job just to fill a quota. I thought I was hired once just to match a quota and felt offended enough that I went to HR to see if that was the case
Manlets, when will they learn...
That sort of issue affects people at some top US universities, some people from certain groups are given an advantage in terms of entry requirements - those groups can be based on ethnicity or sporting ability or simply having parents who attended the university and/or made big donations to it ergo being a "legacy" candidate.
This can easily lead people who perhaps fall into one of the relevant groups and would otherwise have been there anyway on merit alone to develop imposter syndrome and/or to worry about the perceptions of others towards them.
It can also mean that some of those who wouldn't have otherwise been there on merit alone can struggle a lot and have a higher chance of dropping out.
The TV show Silicon Valley covered this sort of nonsense quite well:
Men on average don't want to become nurses because men are different to women on average. This isn't due to them being given an action man as a toy instead of a barbie, it's because men have high levels of testosterone which means we're naturally less inclined to want to perform a role like nursing which is focused around nurturing and caring.
I've seen it first hand. Indian woman on the graduate scheme. She was an incredibly good mechanical engineer, doubted herself and thought she only got the job because she's Indian and Female. She was actually just incredibly competent.
Totally agree with this, you can be proud to be a great teacher, an engineer, an astronaut etc. To be proud of something that you have had no control over is not an admirable trait.
So to be proud to be black, brown or white, gay or straight, tall or short
, male or female is futile when there is nothing that you can do to change.