Is the snake oil slowly retreating from the Hi-Fi industry?

[Armageus]

While I still think that USB cable is snake oil I used to say the same thing about HDMI cables until found out I was wrong. The cable can impact the 0's and 1's normally due to bandwidth and distance and I have come across super cheap USB's that corrupt the 0's and 1's.

It can corrupt the stream of 0's or 1's (in the same way a poor quality HDMI can), e.g. in a very simplistic explanation - dropping 1's may create audible "gaps" of silence in the track, whereas as 0 corrupted to a 1, may add audible "pops" or other unexpected noise.

What it can't do however is modify the 0's and 1's in such a way that the resulting sound is "more natural", as that would require altering the whole of the bit steam.

However I'm waiting for st!xt to explain how he thinks this is possible

 

[enkoda]

They do take it seriously and it is addressed because it can be a serious issue. Most home users don’t bother because their equipment and data aren’t important enough or they don’t understand when extra shielding is needed and so use the wrong cable. That’s if they need shielding in the first place as many don’t. But just as often I have seen many who should be using a shielded cable at home and do not and others who do not realize the problem they have is due to lack of shielding.

Both at home and at work I have plenty of shielded cables and equipment and many places prefer shielded cables for valid reasons. I have no idea why you think only the audiophile market has addressed this as its common practice in many markets to use shielded cables. Though that £1000 USB stick looks like pure snake oil.

Like you said, many people don't need this enhanced shielding, but you do. Is the cost per metre of the cables you use anywhere near the £2500 p/m that these audiophile ones can cost? And once you've established why you haven't spent anywhere near that amount, you'll understand the point I'm making.

I've read numerous reviews of expensive USB and network cables where the reviewer has claimed to notice significant changes in audio quality - it's just utter, utter nonsense backed up by purely subjective opinions, not objective, verifiable, evidence based testing.

 

[james.miller]

I have explained this technically and been far more civil, despite the nonsense, than anybody else in doing so You need to accept it.

Haha ok



As far as usb cables go, there is the possibility of a better constructed cable lead to lower jitter - that's the timing of the bits arriving at the receiver - and that can have an effect on audio. However, this relies on you using no buffer and streaming the pcm in real time over the USB link.

Soo, don't use a buffer, rely on the cable, buy an expensive clock or ..use a buffer. That about sums it up so in order to answer the question, Yes a usb cable can alter the sound, but only if you build your audio solution arse-backwards.

 

[enkoda]

I suggest you read this.
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...y-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/

The part where I mention pc users, you know regular joes getting together and brining to the fore the audiophile pc.
Read this and try to understand it. It may be hard work for someone like you, especially with your blinkers on, but I have faith in you.I have been there since the start of the thread.
Then maybe just maybe you might come back and say something of worth. You might even be able to talk to me on a level I may find vaguely interesting.
Flat earthers are alive and well in this thread.

I only got through the first page so far where three merits of a $1k USB cable are being discussed, but I notice lots of phrases like: commanding leading edge, crystal clear clarity, presents detail and delicacy, sounds more natural, and the classic "I prefer". Save me some time and tell me where the scientific test data is to demonstrate these claims have a modicum of truth to them.

Ironic that flat earthers believe in conspiracy theories rather than observable verifiable scientific evidence.

 

[Jez]

Haha ok

Was in reply to str!xt

 

[Snax]

this is a very entertaining thread.

I think it can be summarised as there was something wrong with the old power cord which impacted performance and a new power cord has fixed the problem. However, because the problem was never properly diagnosed, the new cord (together with it complex engineering) is potentially overkill and the working hypothesis is that a cheaper cord could have fixed the same problem.

This then extends into an argument that there are demonstrably a very small number of problems that a power cord can introduce to sonic performance and all of them can be fixed with cheap solutions rather than the complex and expensive ones offered by some hi fi component vendors.

 

[Mr Badger]

this is a very entertaining thread.

I think it can be summarised as there was something wrong with the old power cord which impacted performance and a new power cord has fixed the problem. However, because the problem was never properly diagnosed, the new cord (together with it complex engineering) is potentially overkill and the working hypothesis is that a cheaper cord could have fixed the same problem.

This then extends into an argument that there are demonstrably a very small number of problems that a power cord can introduce to sonic performance and all of them can be fixed with cheap solutions rather than the complex and expensive ones offered by some hi fi component vendors.

Agreed. It's the same as I commented earlier that a good quality digital cable (or in this case power supply) can fix a problem, but once everything is working 100% correctly there are no more gains to be made by throwing more money at it. The claims being made otherwise seem to be text book examples of the Emperor's new clothes.

 

[enkoda]

I've only got 10 minutes into this and it's a right corker:

Here are a couple of quotes from Steve Silberman, VP, Development at Audioquest:

"The more processing power you have it seems the better the computer sounds. Quad cores sound better than dual cores."
"RAM is your best friend. The more RAM you can get the better the system will sound."
"Solid state drives sound better than spinning disk drives by quite a margin, whether the music is stored there or not."

Lost for words is the phrase I'm looking for....

 

[james.miller]

I only got through the first page so far where three merits of a $1k USB cable are being discussed, but I notice lots of phrases like: commanding leading edge, crystal clear clarity, presents detail and delicacy, sounds more natural, and the classic "I prefer". Save me some time and tell me where the scientific test data is to demonstrate these claims have a modicum of truth to them.

Ironic that flat earthers believe in conspiracy theories rather than observable verifiable scientific evidence.

We welcome your participation in this thread. Please note that discussion needs to stay focused on direct listening experiences with audio experiments discussed here. This is not an opinion thread. Most of what is discussed here does not have a readily available analytical explanation. Once we get into arguing about the why's, this thread is going to disintegrate. If anyone comes in here, makes no contribution, and attacks people, I reserve the right as OP to delete their posts.

Further - this thread is about listening impressions. We do not:

• Demand proof
• Require a specific methodology
• Require measurements.

........ Well....

 

[Pottsey]

I've only got 10 minutes into this and it's a right corker:

Here are a couple of quotes from Steve Silberman, VP, Development at Audioquest:

"The more processing power you have it seems the better the computer sounds. Quad cores sound better than dual cores."
"RAM is your best friend. The more RAM you can get the better the system will sound."
"Solid state drives sound better than spinning disk drives by quite a margin, whether the music is stored there or not."

Lost for words is the phrase I'm looking for....

Not watched the video as its to long for the time I have. Is that talking about just listening to music files like single tracks or a music studio computer because those are very different things and all those statements can be correct for a development studio computer. But clearly wrong for just listening to music.

The software we use at work is https://www.reasonstudios.com/en/reason and more processing power with a quad over dual, more RAM and an SSD for the editing software and modules can impact how the music sounds in that.

 

[aj casey]

It's funny that anybody who buys this stuff always hears an improvement. They never say it has a negative effect

 

[Mr Badger]

It's funny that anybody who buys this stuff always hears an improvement. They never say it has a negative effect

Aside from the negative effect on their bank balance of course!

Would love to see some proper blind testing of the people that believe in this stuff using a variety of setups. We're going to play you a piece of music 10 times. At random half of those will be with the amp connected to a super fuse and half with a regular fuse. Then half with a regular USB cable and half with a £1000 cable. Then half with 16GB of RAM and half with 32GB. Continue as required and see if anyone can consistently identify the "improvement" in the sound rather than just guessing.

 

[enkoda]

Not watched the video as its to long for the time I have. Is that talking about just listening to music files like single tracks or a music studio computer because those are very different things and all those statements can be correct for a development studio computer. But clearly wrong for just listening to music.

The software we use at work is https://www.reasonstudios.com/en/reason and more processing power with a quad over dual, more RAM and an SSD for the editing software and modules can impact how the music sounds in that.

I don't know what context he was referring to, but I wasn't aware that a quad core processor can transfer data over USB 2.0 faster than a dual core cpu can.

Neither did I realise that by jumping from 128GB of memory to 256GB your computer will produce better quality sound.

Mr Silberman really knows his stuff when it comes to computers.

 

[spoffle]

This thread is absolutely hilarious. The nonsense some people actually believe.

Especially the guy who imagined his "better" power cable made his sound system sound completely different.

Absolutely hilarious. He should do stand up.

While people might spend stupid money on computer hardware they won't make full use of (2080Ti playing CSGO) it doesn't mean that you can't actually measure the distance. Some people waste money on performance they don't need, but it's still there, measurably. It's available if they ever require more performance.

A 3950X will complete a render twice as fast as a 3700X. 64GB of RAM will allow you to open more applications and application instances and render larger more complicated scenes.

Snake oil audio nonsense cannot be measured at all. It's all in the mind of the delusional people willingly buy in to it, and it's hilarious. There's no point in arguing with them because you're trying to use logic and reason to reason them out of a position they reason themselves into.

 

[theone8181]

This thread is absolutely hilarious. The nonsense some people actually believe.

Especially the guy who imagined his "better" power cable made his sound system sound completely different.

Absolutely hilarious. He should do stand up.

While people might spend stupid money on computer hardware they won't make full use of (2080Ti playing CSGO) it doesn't mean that you can't actually measure the distance. Some people waste money on performance they don't need, but it's still there, measurably. It's available if they ever require more performance.

A 3950X will complete a render twice as fast as a 3700X. 64GB of RAM will allow you to open more applications and application instances and render larger more complicated scenes.

Snake oil audio nonsense cannot be measured at all. It's all in the mind of the delusional people willingly buy in to it, and it's hilarious. There's no point in arguing with them because you're trying to use logic and reason to reason them out of a position they reason themselves into.

The irony being the people that believe there's a difference are closer to the flat earthers, yet try calling others out.

 

[str!xt]

This thread is absolutely hilarious.
He should do stand up.
The nonsense some people actually believe.
imagined
"better" power cable made his sound system sound completely different.
Absolutely hilarious.
Snake oil audio nonsense cannot be measured at all.
It's all in the mind of the delusional people willingly buy in to it, and it's hilarious.
There's no point in arguing with them because you're trying to use logic and reason as I have so eloquently and irrefutably pointed out above

I see your degree In goat maintainance and sesspit digging from the university of Mumbai came in handy. I can’t argue with that logic. You got me on the run there cupcake.
More flat earth logic and techincal talk. Here have another bag of rocks.
You think insulting me in anyway bolsters your immature way of viewing how audio works?
Another goon who has tried to inject himself into something of which he know nothing.

Here’s another one for you sceptics, know it alls, pretend audiophiles,dullards and rock throwers to figure out. How could a better graphics card possibly get you a better sound. And it’s a fact that it does!

Squabble over that one. But this time come back with formulas, graphs and data. you know, the ones you have been using throughout this thread in your futile and more often than not , purile and utterly facile attempt to prove the people who really know what’s going on, that they are somehow wrong. Hence my flat earth jibe. Although it could work the other way. But iv’e yet to see any conclusive evidence to help your cause pal. So my comment stands up for now, doesn’t it.

 

[james.miller]

This is beautiful to see. Going from 0 to laughingstock in 2 days flat. Getting bent completely sideways because people ask you questions you cant answer. the name calling and projecting this idea that you are somehow more intelligent (whilst demonstrating you are factually incapable of holding a civilized discussion). It's just lovely. @str!xt, you are everything wrong with audiophilia in one brilliant caricature and I salute you - you've certainly been entertaining.

You think insulting me in anyway bolsters your immature way of viewing how audio works?

 

[str!xt]

Still have that boner for me eh James?

 

[james.miller]

You must be confused. That probably happens a lot

 

[Pottsey]

I don't know what context he was referring to, but I wasn't aware that a quad core processor can transfer data over USB 2.0 faster than a dual core cpu can.

Neither did I realise that by jumping from 128GB of memory to 256GB your computer will produce better quality sound.

Mr Silberman really knows his stuff when it comes to computers.

Those music development programs can use a surprising amount of ram and processing where muti cores benefit and it is even possible to impact data transfer over USB. I take it you have never tried to data transfer over USB when a dual core CPU is maxed out at 100% when rendering/processing and without an SSD. A quad core is a much smoother expreince.

When you have dozens of plugins loaded in the music productions software which most people sound processing will do at the same time as having multiple streams you use a large amount of ram up and data takes up a surprising amount of bandwidth. Depending on what editing you are doing doubling ram will improve sound. But of course you will get to a point where extra ram will do nothing. I use up more ram, CPU cores and processing while developing then I do for high end gaming. If I drop ram and the CPU down to 2 cores music will stutter, crackle while editing so its reasonable to say quad core and extra rams improves the music in the editing software. EDIT: That's just for music editing. If you are video editing and music editing together with multiple music and video overlays please give me that 256GB of ram over 128GB or way, way more at the really high end editing.

The context really does matter because those specs can impact sound quality while you are processing and creating music. But will do nothing for sound if you are just listening to single tracks at a time and nothing else. If he is pitching to people editing music and using music development programs then we shouldn't be making fun of what he is saying as its correct. Now if he is pitching those things to people listening to single tracks at a time. Ignore what I am saying and LoL at him.