Israel-Hamas war - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

Screeeech · 11 Oct 2023 at 07:41

StriderX said:
Basically gifting Hamas or any other group with a distinct displeasure for Jewish people what it wants on a silver platter with this. Any sympathy I have for Israel would evaporate permanently.

There is no point trying to think about this problem whilst trying to sympathise with either side, you’ll get nowhere.

Gaza needs to go, it’s the only way. Notions of right, wrong, good, evil aside - there’s no other way, or any sort of half measure available that would work now.

Uther · 11 Oct 2023 at 07:42

StriderX said:
Basically gifting Hamas or any other group with a distinct displeasure for Jewish people what it wants on a silver platter if this is the outcome. Any sympathy I have for Israel would evaporate permanently.

I'm sure all sides know this. Israel has always reacted with force, as it has to when attacked (like most countries do...) but the terrorists keep doing it anyway.
They can't allow this to happen again from Gaza, the best chance for innocent Palestinians now is being able to get the hell out.

Screeeech · 11 Oct 2023 at 07:44

Abraxaz1 said:
I think they'll won't take the city but create a DMZ around it filled with deep trenches to prevent tunnels and land mines.

The force Israel have mobilised (300-400k troops) isn’t going to dig trenches - that’s an invasion force.

I think they’ll go in, very soon.

Orangeade · 11 Oct 2023 at 07:44

Screeeech said:
With all due respect, I don’t really understand how the goal of removing Hamas completely, is possible with air and artillery alone.

Gaza is going to need to be cleaned out, street to street, the whole area needs to be totally wiped clean, then Israel take it for themselves*

I just don’t see how any final or lasting goal can be achieved, without the complete takeover of Gaza and for me that would require 300-400k troops on the ground.

*Whether Israel should take over Gaza or not, from the perspective of “right or wrong” is beyond me, and I think that the whole situation has now transcended any notion of right or wrong, it just needs to be done.

I would presume by levelling a large swathe that they are probably making corridors where troops and hardware can deploy without immediate hand to hand/ambush seeing as the place is densely built up.

Not to mention probably getting occasionally lucky and dropping building on tunnels. Oh and displacing the population who eventually will scamper to safer UN zones allowing them to invade?

Oh and in the event they are reined in that they will have set the place back 30 years. Good old fashioned revenge?

Source; none just me thinking out loud.

Orangeade · 11 Oct 2023 at 07:45

Uther said:
I'm sure all sides know this. Israel has always reacted with force, as it has to when attacked (like most countries do...) but the terrorists keep doing it anyway.
They can't allow this to happen again from Gaza, the best chance for innocent Palestinians now is being able to get the hell out.

And come straight to Europe where we can have more scenes like the other day and a new generation of disenfranchised angry people? No thanks. Islamic countries should take Islamic people.

Edit: doesn't mean we can't give aid, but **** taking them in.

Nitefly · 11 Oct 2023 at 07:46

Uther said:
… the best chance for innocent Palestinians now is being able to get the hell out.

Unfortunately this is probably true.

Uther · 11 Oct 2023 at 07:48

Orangeade said:
And come straight to Europe where we can have more scenes like the other day and a new generation of disenfranchised angry people? No thanks. Islamic countries should take Islamic people.

Edit: doesn't mean we can't give aid, but **** taking them in.

They could, but will they? Displaced angry young Palestinians could be a problem for any country, even an Islamic one.
Potentially 2 million refugees if Israel wants to destroy Gaza.

Nitefly · 11 Oct 2023 at 07:48

Orangeade said:
And come straight to Europe where we can have more scenes like the other day and a new generation of disenfranchised angry people? No thanks. Islamic countries should take Islamic people.

Edit: doesn't mean we can't give aid, but **** taking them in.

lol where did that come from?

ICDP · 11 Oct 2023 at 07:50

Richie said:
N.Korea says hi... Unless you count fear of death unless voting a certain way as "support of the people"?

Hell, I know people who voted Sinn Fein back in the 80s for an easy life. Even though they did not support their methods. Don’t underestimate the power of fear of reprisals, even if those reprisals would be relatively tame compared to what Hamas would do.

It’s funny all these people proclaiming “well they could just defy Hamas”. These people have absolutely zero concept of what life would be like for such people. It’s easy making such statements from the safety of your free western democracy. Where voting against the “preferred candidate” gets nothing worse than a frosty reception at the Christmas dinner table.

steve_c · 11 Oct 2023 at 07:51

Nitefly said:
lol where did that come from?

Probably from all the people in Australia shouting "Gas the Jews, kill the Jews"

ICDP · 11 Oct 2023 at 07:52

Nitefly said:
lol where did that come from?

He/She/They are a Bravermann fan.

BUDFORCE · 11 Oct 2023 at 07:55

steve_c said:
Probably from all the people in Australia shouting "Gas the Jews, kill the Jews"

Yea they seem like a lovely bunch, can only improve diversity having a bunch more of those over here, right?

steve_c · 11 Oct 2023 at 07:55

ICDP said:
He/She/They are a Bravermann fan.

To be fair, I wouldn't want a stream of people entering this country unchecked from that area. You'd need your head seen to if you were comfortable with it, after what we've witnessed over the last few days.

SpellowHouse · 11 Oct 2023 at 07:57

steve_c said:
To be fair, I wouldn't want a stream of people entering this country unchecked from that area. You'd need your head seen to if you were comfortable with it, after what we've witnessed over the last few days.

I suspect that Israel would simply relocate them to the West Bank, making up some story about keeping them safe.

But no, I hate to be racist, but I wouldn't want them here either.

ICDP · 11 Oct 2023 at 07:58

steve_c said:
To be fair, I wouldn't want a stream of people entering this country unchecked from that area. You'd need your head seen to if you were comfortable with it, after what we've witnessed over the last few days.

Neither would I but I accept the rules of the International Refugee Convention.

By default the vast majority would end up in Egypt and surrounding countries other than Israel. So his/her/their point is moot.

a1ex2001 · 11 Oct 2023 at 07:59

Orangeade said:
And come straight to Europe where we can have more scenes like the other day and a new generation of disenfranchised angry people? No thanks. Islamic countries should take Islamic people.

Edit: doesn't mean we can't give aid, but **** taking them in.

We don’t get to make that choice it’s not how international law works.

Anyone fleeing Gaza would easily meet the criteria for a refugee seeking asylum, if we actually processed applications they would be the quickest and easiest you might as well just stamp them approved at the point of entry.

Abraxaz1 · 11 Oct 2023 at 08:06

Screeeech said:
The force Israel have mobilised (300-400k troops) isn’t going to dig trenches - that’s an invasion force.

I think they’ll go in, very soon.

Not enough in my opinion especially as it's split between Gaza, west bank and borders.

It's a show of force, basically look at us we can get this many troops as a reaction, don't try anything.

Taking Gaza would be worse than taking Basra or Baghdad due to its warrenhole like construction. Plus the peacekeeping after would make Afghanistan, Iraq an northern Ireland feel like a day in the park.

neocon · 11 Oct 2023 at 08:07

Wonder if their intelligence knew something, but needed a context for an invasion. Either that or they were sleeping.

SpellowHouse · 11 Oct 2023 at 08:10

neocon said:
Wonder if their intelligence knew something, but needed a context for an invasion. Either that or they were sleeping.

Well, of course they needed an Online Safety bill. That would have solved everything. :cry:

Talking about that for a sec, I see that Elon is in warm water...

Elon Musk asks to see 'list of violations' after EU tells him to tackle spread of disinformation about Israel-Hamas conflict on X

The struggle to identify reliable sources for news about the war was exacerbated over the weekend by Mr Musk, who on Sunday posted the names of two accounts he said were "good" for "following the war in real-time".

news.sky.com

It does raise the question of disinformation about all this. It's rampant on so many platforms.

Uther · 11 Oct 2023 at 08:11

neocon said:
Wonder if their intelligence knew something, but needed a context for an invasion. Either that or they were sleeping.

Reports that Eqypt warned them, but even then I doubt they would have expected an attack of this scale.