Israel/Palestine Shenanigans

[dirtychinchilla]

And when the UN tell you 17 times not to hit a school, and then you hit it, what surprise do you get?

 

[Amp34]

because they figure they are winning. Israel is getting some people riled up - not on sites like this, who cares what the usual anti-israel/america brigade think on forums - but where it really matters, in the political heartlands of the US. Its getting embarassing for the US to be seen as unconditionally supporting the Israeli one-sided attack and all its costing Hamas is a couple of thousand civvies when they launch from neighbourhoods and invite in the inevitably dumb reprisal strike. Netanyahu is playing the popular game and really, the only people coming out on top at the moment are Hamas who were there before and will still be there after as the 'defenders of the people'. Israel will be more isolationist and the US will get its punishment in somehow, probably knocking off a couple of hundred mill here or there. And the circle will go round again.

I take it you're happy to use that argument about the Syrian rebels as well? They were and are currently fighting in amongst people's houses against government forces. Most of the dead on both sides were caused by civilians getting caught up in the fighting and killed by heavy weaponry dropped on armed fighters.

Can you provide evidence that they are deliberately targeting infrastructure and not Hamas terrorists who are firing from that location?

Are eye witness accounts by UN employees and western journalists good enough evidence. There are dozens of reports about it...

 

[AGD]

For the record, one of the fellows from the UN schools in Gaza was on the radio 30 mins ago. He acknowledged that Hamas has been firing rockets from some of their schools. Granted he said these were schools they had already abandoned, but its evidence of the fact Hamas use schools as firing points.

When you match this with historical evidence of Hamas using human shields and firing from densely populated civilian areas, it's really no surprise schools get hit in the crossfire.

If you know terrorists are hiding in a school where civilians are, does it then make it ok to bomb that school?

Israel has attacked UN schools, which they had been given the exact coordinates for, without warning. Either they don't care about civilians, or they are too incompetent to use the weapons they have. Which is it?

 

[Schlong&Stable]

And when the UN tell you 17 times not to hit a school, and then you hit it, what surprise do you get?

You assume that this information was instantly passed along to those in the firing control; can you prove that to be the case? Also, if Hamas were firing from that location, Israel has every right to respond. Thirdly, who is to say this was the Israeli target? It's possible they were aiming at the building next door and accidentally hit the school.

In short: Can you prove they deliberately targeted civilians?

If you know terrorists are hiding in a school where civilians are, does it then make it ok to bomb that school?

Israel has attacked UN schools, which they had been given the exact coordinates for, without warning. Either they don't care about civilians, or they are too incompetent to use the weapons they have. Which is it?

Yes, it does. We fire-bombed Dresden, we have no right to criticise Israel for collateral damage.

 

[Amp34]

For the record, one of the fellows from the UN schools in Gaza was on the radio 30 mins ago. He acknowledged that Hamas has been firing rockets from some of their schools. Granted he said these were schools they had already abandoned, but its evidence of the fact Hamas use schools as firing points.

When you match this with historical evidence of Hamas using human shields and firing from densely populated civilian areas, it's really no surprise schools get hit in the crossfire.

Abandoned schools are very different to schools being used as civilian shelters.

And when the UN tell you 17 times not to hit a school, and then you hit it, what surprise do you get?

Easy, you just say the UN are lying.

 

[Devlish]

I take it you're happy to use that argument about the Syrian rebels as well? They were and are currently fighting in amongst people's houses against government forces. Most of the dead on both sides were caused by civilians getting caught up in the fighting and killed by heavy weaponry dropped on armed fighters.

Not really, I mean there is an element of that but that accounts for a tiny minority of the civilian casualties. Assad considers the whole of areas under rebel control as valid targets.

Assad has no pinpoint munitions that he cares to use. instead he uses unguided rockets, artillery spreads and barrel bombs dropped from helicopters. If Israel used that we would not be talking about a thousand dead, but the whole of Gaza.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

You missed 17 communications not to fire? Really clever.

 

[ak22]

You assume that this information was instantly passed along to those in the firing control; can you prove that to be the case? Also, if Hamas were firing from that location, Israel has every right to respond. Thirdly, who is to say this was the Israeli target? It's possible they were aiming at the building next door and accidentally hit the school.

In short: Can you prove they deliberately targeted civilians?

U.N give the IDF the exact coordinates of every U.N establishment.


U.N, MSF and eye witness accounts show that Israel is purposely targeting civilians we have seen it many times before, here are a few examples to job your memory:

Spoiler

Unarmed cold blood murder of civilians in west bank before the current war started:
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/29/world/israeli-shooting-investigation/

Al Shojaeya neighborhood in Gaza.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=485021184965940

 

[Devlish]

You missed 17 communications not to fire? Really clever.

You think its one guy in a tank? UN tells political leadership, political leadership tells high command, high command tells operational command, operation command instructs division, division instructs brigade, brigade instructs battalion, battalion tells company. In the meantime a platoon of tanks is shot at from that street over there and returns fire.

 

[AGD]

Yes, it does. We fire-bombed Dresden, we have no right to criticise Israel for collateral damage.

Oh wow, you really are an extremist. Comparing the second world war to the Israel/Palestine situation is risible.

Rockets from Gaza have killed 28 Israelis (that's civilians + soldiers) since 2001. Not really an existential threat is it? Certainly not enough to justify killing roughly 1000 civilians in the space of a few weeks.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

You think its one guy in a tank? UN tells political leadership, political leadership tells high command, high command tells operational command, operation command instructs division, division instructs brigade, brigade instructs battalion, battalion tells company. In the meantime a platoon of tanks is shot at from that street over there and returns fire.

It was a remote missile. I know there's a chain of communication, but that chain is well established and should know exactly where not to fire at all times. 17

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Oh wow, you really are an extremist. Comparing the second world war to the Israel/Palestine situation is risible.

Rockets from Gaza have killed 28 Israelis (that's civilians + soldiers) since 2001. Not really an existential threat is it? Certainly not enough to justify killing roughly 1000 civilians in the space of a few weeks.

Israel is surrounded by enemies who are looking to snuff them out. They have been attacked multiple times by opposing forces who literally wanted to wipe Israel off the map. EVERY DAY is WWII for Israel, it's a constant battle for survival.

Additionally, the fact the Palestinians are abysmal at warfare and that the Israelis have ensured sufficient defences, does not excuse Hamas firing on Israel dozens of times a month.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Israel is surrounded by enemies who are looking to snuff them out. They have been attacked multiple times by opposing forces who literally wanted to wipe Israel off the map. EVERY DAY is WWII for Israel, it's a constant battle for survival.

Additionally, the fact the Palestinians are abysmal at warfare and that the Israelis have ensured sufficient defences, does not excuse Hamas firing on Israel dozens of times a month.

Oh yeah, Israel is REALLY suffering!! I'm not surprised people want to wipe them out considering how aggressive they are. They are the US outpost in the East.

 

[Fireskull]

Israel is surrounded by enemies who are looking to snuff them out. They have been attacked multiple times by opposing forces who literally wanted to wipe Israel off the map. EVERY DAY is WWII for Israel, it's a constant battle for survival.

Additionally, the fact the Palestinians are abysmal at warfare and that the Israelis have ensured sufficient defences, does not excuse Hamas firing on Israel dozens of times a month.

LOL are you on the same planet

You even quote the post where it states how small Israel's casualties are yet state everyday is like WW2 for Israel just LOL

 

[Devlish]

Oh yeah, Israel is REALLY suffering!! I'm not surprised people want to wipe them out considering how aggressive they are. They are the US outpost in the East.

Whilst I appreciate your passion, you're as bad as an Israeli coming in here and pointing out no nation on earth would accept rockets being fired into its territory from a neighbouring state. Two sides diametrically opposed who will never meet in the middle.

A bit like this thread

 

[Schlong&Stable]

LOL are you on the same planet

You even quote the post where it states how small Israel's casualties are yet state everyday is like WW2 for Israel just LOL

Because Iron Dome and the Israeli warning systems ensure most missiles don't kill, that somehow means that Hamas do not pose an existential threat to Israel?

What sort of idiot would say 'This guy keeps shooting me in the chest, but I'll not anything about it because I'm wearing a bullet-proof vest'?

 

[wildman]

You assume that this information was instantly passed along to those in the firing control; can you prove that to be the case? Also, if Hamas were firing from that location, Israel has every right to respond. Thirdly, who is to say this was the Israeli target? It's possible they were aiming at the building next door and accidentally hit the school.

In short: Can you prove they deliberately targeted civilians?



Yes, it does. We fire-bombed Dresden, we have no right to criticise Israel for collateral damage.

that is irrelevant. The UN an international recognised body specifically asked that that location not be targeted, not once, not twice but 17 times. Israel then reduced it to rubble anyway. If any other nation pulled this kind of **** they would have their balls on the coals. Israel have form for ignoring UN mandates, requests and protocols and are actively encouraged by the US to engage in their reign of terror.

The unwavering support for the actions of the IDF and that war warmongering lunatic Natanyhu is astounding but not unexpected when people so easily lap up the BS propaganda from from those israeli terrorists................

 

[ak22]

Israel is surrounded by enemies who are looking to snuff them out. They have been attacked multiple times by opposing forces who literally wanted to wipe Israel off the map. EVERY DAY is WWII for Israel, it's a constant battle for survival.

Additionally, the fact the Palestinians are abysmal at warfare and that the Israelis have ensured sufficient defences, does not excuse Hamas firing on Israel dozens of times a month.

Well what do you expect when you create a country illegal and butcher its population and force out over 750,000+ native people. You speaking as is Israel is victim here is it occupying force hell bent of wiping Palestine off the map.

Everyday is WW2? Yeah you got that right Gaza is the london blitzkrieg

 

[Fireskull]

Because Iron Dome and the Israeli warning systems ensure most missiles don't kill, that somehow means that Hamas do not pose an existential threat to Israel?

What sort of idiot would say 'This guy keeps shooting me in the chest, but I'll not anything about it because I'm wearing a bullet-proof vest'?

Lets not forget why Hamas started the rockets again in the first place, they didn't initiate this attack

Well what do you expect when you create a country illegal and butcher its population and force out over 750,000+ native people. You speaking as is Israel is victim here is it occupying force hell bent of wiping palestine off the map.

This.

Two sides diametrically opposed who will never meet in the middle.

A bit like this thread

And this too lol

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Well what do you expect when you create a country illegal and butcher its population and force out over 750,000+ native people. You speaking as is Israel is victim here is it occupying force hell bent of wiping palestine off the map.

"Palestine" is an aberration; a bunch of squatter on historically Israeli territory. The Palestinians would not be existing on such reduced territory if they hadn't collaborated with Syria et al to attack Israel.