Soldato
Israel/Palestine Shenanigans
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Soldato
International law and the UN disagree with you, yes the same UN that helped create Israel.
Soldato
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Yes, might is right.
If Hitler had not engaged in the systematic genocide of European Jews, he'd probably not be thought of in any worse terms than Kaiser Wilhelm II, Napoleon or the myriad of military conquerors who came before.
Only after 1974 (or thereabouts).
Going back into history, ancient Israel behaved very badly too (including attempts to destroy other nations) and were punished for it by losing their land. So according to your logic, their right to go back would also have been lost forever. Which makes your point moot.
No, the thing is the following - just prior to 1947/1948, Jews, Muslims and Christians mostly got along fine in what is supposed to be The HOLY Land. The people who lived there WANTED to live in The Holy Land, and had learnt, or were learning, how to get along with each other.
Then there was a sudden influx of people who hadn't wanted to live in The HOLY Land, and only went there because of what had happened to them in Europe. Now, according to Jews who already lived there, the new European Jews were a different sort for the most part. They were very aggressive, didn't want to make peace with their neighbours, murdered British soldiers, etc. And it was them who took charge of the new-born Jewish State. And ever since then, the same "all this land belongs to us, we have suffered so much, we deserve it all" mentality has prevailed among the leadership of Israel.
It is time now to listen to those conscientious Israelis whose voices are becoming louder, and warning their fellows of what is happening to them - that they are losing their soul. They are not traitors or "self-hating Jews". They are people with conscience. Israel will not be able to get away with the argument that no heed should be taken of the advice of those who aren't Jews or Israelis because "they just hate us", for much longer. Now there are plenty from within Israel saying the same. That the majority of Israelis seem to still be in favour of Israel's barbarous policies regarding Palestinians and their land, is without question. But popular belief in something doesn't make something right, and it all starts with a single "voice in the wilderness", which is then accompanied by others.
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Soldato
My question is regarding his treatment towards the Jews.
It seems you have no qualms about the Palestinians being slaughtered since they are weaker then the Israelis, so extending your logic you would have no qualms about the holocaust.
Soldato
A non Zionist point of view, they believe that it is against their religion to actually have a jewish homeland like Israel.
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What frustrates me, is that we're brainwashed into accepting double standards from the govt.
Whilst Assad and Gadaffi were busy being naughty boys, there was no shortage of gaunt politicians appearing on our screens to condemn them - we even voted on military action in parliament against Assad.
Russian separatists shoot down an airliner full of civilians - the same gaunt faces appear on the screen condemning Russia, imposing sanctions, etc etc, the world must stand united against Putin, yada yada yada..
Israel starts butchering civilians, bombing schools and UN shelters - and it's all very quiet, the US apparently condemns the aggression, then re-fills Israel's ammunition caches..
Whilst Assad and Gadaffi were busy being naughty boys, there was no shortage of gaunt politicians appearing on our screens to condemn them - we even voted on military action in parliament against Assad.
Russian separatists shoot down an airliner full of civilians - the same gaunt faces appear on the screen condemning Russia, imposing sanctions, etc etc, the world must stand united against Putin, yada yada yada..
Israel starts butchering civilians, bombing schools and UN shelters - and it's all very quiet, the US apparently condemns the aggression, then re-fills Israel's ammunition caches..
Soldato
That was might in right too surely? So I guess you wouldn't have an issue if Iran got hold of some nukes and wiped Israel off the map too I guess?
That is not true
So no they lost no "right" to any territory according to international law and the UN.
Soldato
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Well, the Palestinians in Gaza are dying because they elected Hamas who continue to wage war on Israeli. I cannot say I have a lot of sympathy for their plight as a consequence of their poor choice of government.
Just because I accept that might is right, it doesn't mean I am in favour of the weak being killed. Ideally the Palestinians will stop attacking Israel and then things can start to move towards a peaceful settlement. Failing that, they ought to relocate to Jordan or Egypt.
Soldato
Relocate how? you do realise it's basically a concentration camp they can't get out.
I guess the occupation, blockade and downright inhumane treatment of a population made voting Hamas a little easier.
People voted for UKIP or the BNP just because they were disillusioned with the three main parties.
People voted for UKIP or the BNP just because they were disillusioned with the three main parties.
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Soldato
You still never answered my question but it seems your answer is clear.
You fail.
Soldato
You have a warped interpretation of reality, its Israel continuing to wage war on the Palestinians in effect by occupation. Hamas is a direct result of this and decades of inhumane treatment, murder etc
Yea like how the west bank has been moving to a peaceful settlement, well you got the settlements bit right as they are illegally continuing.
Soldato
It's seems Israel only complaint is its victim continues to struggle as they gradually murder or make them refugees! We want these guys disarmed (yet we will keep our weapons) and continue on the same path.
It's like serial killer strangling their victim then complaining they are trying to wriggle free
It's like serial killer strangling their victim then complaining they are trying to wriggle free
Soldato
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I have answered you, but let me give you a more nuanced response.
If Hitler had won the war, his actions against the Jews would have been acceptable. As it happens, he lost because the Allies were more mighty, thus it was determined his actions were unacceptable. It's not like you'd be in a position to question him if they had won; you'd probably have the secret police dragging you off to a reeducation camp.
I don't personally advocate the liquidation of Palestinians, nor do I consider that to be what is or will happen.
Soldato
So basically what you are saying is "history is written by the victors"
Unfortunately this is a localised conflict rather than a world war with international observers. The victors in this case have no influence on right or wrong or what is determined as acceptable or unacceptable. That is for the international community and organisations like the UN to decide, hence one of the reasons why they were created.
So again, no might is right is not acceptable or applicable in the 21st century in a localised conflict.
B) Perhaps the actions against the Jews may have been acceptable to Germans and their allies, but that does not mean it would have been seen as acceptable by the wider international community even if the Germans had won.
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It's seems Israel only complaint is its victim continues to struggle as they gradually murder or make them refugees! We want these guys disarmed (yet we will keep our weapons) and continue on the same path.
It's like serial killer strangling their victim then complaining they are trying to wriggle free
israel won't even let in weapons inspectors like iran did
It's like serial killer strangling their victim then complaining they are trying to wriggle free
Agreed perfect analogy, l'm sure Murka will be along to hold the victim still if needed.
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