Israel/Palestine Shenanigans

[Craterloads]

hj

Well that's not how the UN (or Europe) works.

Who mentioned anything about how the UN or Europe works. I questioned the validity of the UNs decision to hand land over from the actual natives to European Jews. In fact here is how the Israeli prime minster from the time period thought of it

"If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" David Ben Gurion

That these were just native peoples, not a sovereign state?

How does the occupations of the people relate to a sovereign state. I'm not sure how we got from one to another. And for arguments sake is the natives claim lessened because they are not a sovereign state, when the people moving in are Europeans?

I think you are being pointlessly literal here, when describing a peasant population do you list every peasant trade with which they occupy themselves, or do you just call them peasants (or goat herders, or wheat growers or whatever)

No I don't call people who grow crops, work in the textile industry, raise livestock etc "goat herders"

I call goat herders "goat herders"

Ask yourself, you keep asking it?

It's a point you have been making, please answer. Why do you think there occupation lessens their valid claims to the land.

It's relevant because once again their fate had been decided by technologically superior countries just as it had been when they were ruled by the Ottoman empire. Peasants don't get to decide who they are ruled by, they just get ruled.

Lol, so it's might is right for you? So you probably also support Russia in Ukraine and any other technologically superior country when they invade other countries? What a silly line of rationale, are you living in the 12th century? Interesting you have gone from the Jews had a valid claim to the land decided by the UN to the Palestinians were goat herders and couldn't defend themselves, so tough...

The lack of Nobels can be traced back to Islamic society, nobody wants to work in a repressive environment, so unless they can escape to the west, nothing of note is done. S.Korea just lacks interaction. I've got a nice paper on this somewhere.

Intelligence was your wording, I'm putting it down as a side effect of your culture.

Actually "intelligence" was apt considering you brought up Nobel Prizes as a counter to "if you think Muslims are stupid villagers." To which you answered they have only won 2 Nobel Prices, which again is not true as the number is significantly greater than that so you started out on a lie. As I have demonstrated Nobel prizes do not reflect the intellect based off ethnicity or religious make up and is ridiculous to suggest otherwise. looking at the list of nations with Nobel Prizes per Capita there are many nations towards the lower end of the scale who have what most would accept to be intelligent nations. Not to even mentions a massive number of other factors, but I guess you like to simply things to get across irrational and biased points (proven by the fact you have papers on such)

"S.Korea just lacks interaction" what does that mean

Last point, sarcasm?

Do you know what sarcasm is? I think the term your looking for is "stereotype"

 

[bitslice]

Why does being a less technologically advanced group of people give you a lesser claim to the land?

Because if they were more advanced they could have defended the land they lived on, but they weren't.
To be a sovereign state you need a system of government. Being a bunch of semi nomadic goat herders doesn't cut it in the League of Nations.

He thinks what Israel is doing is good by forcing people out of their own homes, forcing them all back and now MAJORITY is living in smaller patch of land wheras the minority is living in huge amount of lands..

I'm also the same person who called the Israelis, terrorists.

*shrug*

 

[ak22]

Craterloads you are wasting your time he is islamophobic, a lot of people have seen this in previous threads where he has suspended few times. I'm sure if their was not rule against it, he would speak his mind again instead of beating around the bush trying to avoid a ban.

 

[Caged]

Because if they were more advanced they could have defended the land they lived on, but they weren't.
To be a sovereign state you need a system of government. Being a bunch of semi nomadic goat herders doesn't cut it in the League of Nations.

Neither of those are reasons why the claim is less valid. If someone turned up at your house with weapons and decided to take everything presumably you'd just be "Welp, this person has more advanced technology to attack me with than I had to defend myself with. Oh well. I'll just have to deal with it."

 

[Craterloads]

Because if they were more advanced they could have defended the land they lived on, but they weren't.

Teaches them for being non violent and peaceful people, wait a minute.

To be a sovereign state you need a system of government. Being a bunch of semi nomadic goat herders doesn't cut it in the League of Nations.

As oppose to European Jews spread across the continent?


Again your argument has switched from "right" to "might is right".

And again non of this lessens people legitimates claims to their land, which you were suggesting earlier on was due to the fact of their occupation aka "goat herders"

 

[Craterloads]

Craterloads you are wasting your time he is islamophobic, a lot of people have seen this in previous threads where he has suspended few times. I'm sure if there was not rule against it he would speak his mind again instead of beating around the bush trying to avoid a ban.

Yea I know that, got a bit of time to kill so why not.

I'm just amazed the dedication this guy puts in to his work, he really must hate Muslims

 

[bitslice]

It's a point you have been making, please answer. Why do you think there occupation lessens their valid claims to the land.

See post#102

No I don't call people who grow crops, work in the textile industry, raise livestock etc "goat herders"

What do you call them then? Cropyy, weavy, goaty, farmer people?

Lol, so it's might is right for you? So you probably also support Russia in Ukraine

Mostly ethnic Russians in the Crimea, seems reasonable. it did once belong to them.

and any other technologically superior country when they invade other countries? What a silly line of rationale, are you living in the 12th century?

That's how it works, if Germany had won we would have been beaten by a
technologically superior country, except ours was better.

Interesting you have gone from the Jews had a valid claim to the land decided by the UN to the Palestinians were goat herders and couldn't defend themselves, so tough...

One is the rationale for the location, the second is the right to make the ruling, problem?

Actually "intelligence" was apt considering you brought up Nobel Prizes as a counter to "if you think Muslims are stupid villagers."

It was discussed before that, stupid muslims was his interpretation of what I had said previously.


How many times do you want me to explain the same points craterloads?
This is going in circles at least three times.

 

[Vita]

What's happening in Palestine is genocide. The US/UK were quick to act against Iraq/Libiya/Afghanistan, but not an inch of movement against isreal/syria. LOL where is the UN?

It's atrocious and disgusting. Where is this peace they always speak of? Why not intervine and stop what's going on? Innocents are dying but they don't want to bat an eye.

I've seen all over the web that what isreal is doing is right, if you are attacked then attack back. Why not give the palestinians the land which they are due and stop. Oh no that won't happen, they rather get rid of them all together.

We're all Humans, we may share different beliefs/religions/skin colour, but we all have the same DNA running through us. Even animals are more compassionate then humans.

Oh and the media lies. Wake up world.

 

[bitslice]

Neither of those are reasons why the claim is less valid. If someone turned up at your house with weapons and decided to take everything presumably you'd just be "Welp, this person has more advanced technology to attack me with than I had to defend myself with. Oh well. I'll just have to deal with it."

Look, it's not me who made the decision, it was the league of nations, I'm just putting my view of why this was done.
Go talk to the UN if you think they are wrong, instead of saying I'm wrong all the time like I had anything to do with it.

If someone turned up at my house then doubtless some squadies would shoot them in the face, house defended by superior technology, result.

 

[Craterloads]

See post#102

I have and it wasn't a reason to undermine their claim on the land based off their jobs.

What do you call them then? Cropyy, weavy, goaty, farmer people?

There are actually defined names for these particular Jobs. What I don't do is attach a vague label of "goat herders" to anyone working in the agriculture industry and other industries. Just like I dont label the entire population of New Zealand as goat herders even though there econcmy is largely driven by agriculture.

Mostly ethnic Russians in the Crimea, seems reasonable. it did once belong to them.

Yet you ignore the mostly Arab populace at the time.... you seem to be contradicting yourself.

That's how it works, if Germany had won we would have been beaten by a technologically superior country, except ours was better.

We were fighting against the Germans for doing such, not helping them....

One is the rationale for the location, the second is the right to make the ruling, problem?

A better location would be Europe since they are the ones who committed the crimes again the Jews. There's no "right" to make rulings through abuse of power. Genocide is committed through superior might, I think we will all agree it doesn't make it right.

It was discussed before that, stupid muslims was his interpretation of what I had said previously.

Yes which you agreed to take part in by providing counter "evidence" of Noble prizes.

How many times do you want me to explain the same points craterloads?
This is going in circles at least three times.

it would help if you actually make points rather than just statements and avoid explaining them.

 

[Caged]

You're not putting your view forward on why it was done, you're saying it was somehow deserved or 'right' because they were mere farmers. A point which you haven't been able to defend so far.

You've also ignored the reasoning behind my second point - if the contents of your house were taken by force we know damn well you wouldn't be happy about it. Stop putting forward this insane argument that people who can't defend their own territory somehow deserve to lose it.

 

[Craterloads]

You've also ignored the reasoning behind my second point - if the contents of your house were taken by force we know damn well you wouldn't be happy about it. Stop putting forward this insane argument that people who can't defend their own territory somehow deserve to lose it.

Apparently he has "squaddies" and access to firearms at his beck and call, this allows him to skip the core of the point

Guess he is pro rape too, since the rapist is so much stronger than his victim.

 

[bitslice]

You're not putting your view forward on why it was done, you're saying it was somehow deserved or 'right' because they were mere farmers.

That's the same thing?
If they are not a sovereign nation, if they are just living there, then the rest of the world (as represented by the league of nations) gets to say what happens

You forget it's status at the time, it was a protectorate of the British Government, not the Supreme Caliphate of the non repressed Palestinian peoples

This is what it said,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_for_Palestine_%28legal_instrument%29

I suggest you read it instead of personally blaming me for the unilateral subordination of the Palestinian goat herding, wool weaving, wheat growing proletariat

 

[RDM]

What's happening in Palestine is genocide.

It is a very odd genocide as the Palestinian population is increasing rather than decreasing. That isn't to say that what Israel is doing is right, but it isn't genocide.

The US/UK were quick to act against Iraq/Libiya/Afghanistan, but not an inch of movement against isreal/syria. LOL where is the UN?

Considering the opposition to our involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan and Lybia I would have thought you wouldn't want us to get involved?

 

[Sliver]

Pro Jews in here

I blame Hitler.

This literally made me projectile vomit. What a facile and vapid post.

 

[Vita]

Considering the opposition to our involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan and Lybia I would have thought you wouldn't want us to get involved?

I never wanted them to get involved in the mentioned before. Never have I agreed to it. Yet, this time round they're sat on the fence? What kind of ideology is that?

They're always first to promote peace, yet this time round, where are they? I also blame the Arab leaders sat on the fence.

It is genocide.

 

[Caged]

That's the same thing?
If they are not a sovereign nation, if they are just living there, then the rest of the world (as represented by the league of nations) gets to say what happens

You forget it's status at the time, it was a protectorate of the British Government, not the Supreme Caliphate of the non repressed Palestinian peoples

This is what it said,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_for_Palestine_%28legal_instrument%29

I suggest you read it instead of personally blaming me for the unilateral subordination of the Palestinian goat herding, wool weaving, wheat growing proletariat

Suggesting I read something is a bit rich coming from you.

 

[bitslice]

I have and it wasn't a reason to undermine their claim on the land based off their jobs.

what was the league of nations rationale for doing so then?

Yet you ignore the mostly Arab populace at the time.... you seem to be contradicting yourself.

It doesn't matter if they were ethnic teletubbies, it was still a British protectorate, not a Palestinian state

A better location would be Europe since they are the ones who committed the crimes again the Jews.

So the Jews should go and live in Auschwitz or Siberia?

The Kingdoms of Israel has been in Israel since 1000BC, to me that sounds like a good historical connection, that predates the arrival of the semi nomadic goat herding, wool weaving, wheat growing proletariat

There's no "right" to make rulings through abuse of power. Genocide is committed through superior might, I think we will all agree it doesn't make it right.

Did you miss history class? Nothing has changed since year dot.

it would help if you actually make points rather than just statements and avoid explaining them.

I've said everything I wanted to say in post #14, now it's just you being obtuse about the literal meaning of goat herders and people who are happy just to call me racist, islamaphobic, troll and shout "you are wrong!!!!"
Christ if I'm bored ****less then the rest of the forum must be stabbing their face with a fork

 

[Craterloads]

what was the league of nations rationale for doing so then?

There rationale wasn't since they are "goat herders" and based off this particular job we feel the Jews are more worthy to the land.

It doesn't matter if they were ethnic teletubbies, it was still a British protectorate, not a Palestinian state

Still the land owners resulting in their claims of injustice being justified. They are in the right, even the Israeli Prime Minister at the time acknowledged it.

So the Jews should go and live in Auschwitz or Siberia?

Don't know, where they want in Europe. Why should the Palestinians pay for the crimes of the Europeans. Maybe carve a nice piece of Germany out since it was the Germans who did most of the injustice to them.

The Kingdoms of Israel has been in Israel since 1000BC, to me that sounds like a good historical connection, that predates the arrival of the semi nomadic goat herding, wool weaving, wheat growing proletariat

The goat herding, wool weaving, wheat growing Jews of that's time were long gone and did not exist. Because random Jews lived there a thousand years ago does not give modern unrelated European Jews any valid claims to land owned by the current native inhabitants. I have a Historical connection to India, doesn't give me the right to Invade the taj mahal and call it home..

Did you miss history class? Nothing has changed since year dot.

Times have progressed. Nor does it reflect on right and wrong.

I've said everything I wanted to say in post #14, now it's just you being obtuse about the literal meaning of goat herders and people who are happy just to call me racist, islamaphobic, troll and shout "you are wrong!!!!"
Christ if I'm bored ****less then the rest of the forum must be stabbing their face with a fork

Sorry made very little sense, you seem upset you were called out on calling an entire population goat herders, which was done not solely for the term "goat herders" but the emphasis you put on the peoples occupation in some weird unexplainable justification for an undermined claim on their land based off their occupation

Then something about people calling you names and eating with a fork.

 

[RDM]

I never wanted them to get involved in the mentioned before. Never have I agreed to it. Yet, this time round they're sat on the fence? What kind of ideology is that?

They're always first to promote peace, yet this time round, where are they? I also blame the Arab leaders sat on the fence.

So you are moaning about them not getting involved when you don't actually want them to get involved anyway. Fair enough, seems a tad pointless, but go for it.

It is genocide.

About 21,000 people have been killed since the Israeli-Palestinian conflict began, most of them Palestinian, over 60 years. So either it isn't genocide or the Israelis are so rubbish at it that they can't even manage in 60 years what Hitler managed in a week.

What Israel is doing is wrong, without a doubt, but it isn't genocide. Considering the conventional firepower they have at their disposal, never mind their nuclear arsenal, if the Israelis really did want to commit genocide then the death toll would be horrendous.