Israel/Palestine Shenanigans

[bitslice]

I never denied the tactic just the morality, you used lol just after taking about civilian deaths. That's why I called you sick.

No I didn't


"The Facetard page pretends this is some innocent target!
Then moans about how a full minute is not enough to gather documents and children (in that order), lol."


The lol was aimed at the misleading BS on the Facetard page

 

[Muzza1875]

That picture of Israelis watching, clapping and celebrating the bombing of Gaza disgusts me. Whether it's right or wrong, necessary or not to bomb a city, you simply do not celebrate and treat it like entertainment...it's not a movie, that is real people being killed, injured and losing their homes...that's nothing to celebrate, not ever!!

Google Palestine celebrates death of three Jewish kids.
They are just as bad as each other when it comes to death of each other including civilians.

 

[B&W]

If they have an historical claim going back a few thousand years, then it's worth putting it to the UN, yes.

Can you prove otherwise?
Two Nobel prizes, good going there boss.

Name me one muslim the world needs

Besides, my point was that at the time the Jews moved into the state of Israel, there were only goat herders living there.

As if the UN has the right to decide (lets forget the fact that they cant even enforce anything) who owns which land. It is rightfully decided by the majority of the people living in a geographical area.

Not an outside group.

You did not read my post I guess, no amount of education or nobel prizes makes one intelligent nor is it decided by where you are born which is what you are trying to claim.

Education and nobel prizes make you articulate, knowledgeable and give you a lot of techniques and abilities you otherwise wouldn't have.

Like a previous poster said, who are you to decide what is good for humanity and what is not. You don't even know what intelligence is, only god knows how clueless you are on other subjects.

Be it goat herders, geniuses or illiterate cave dwellers they were there neither you or me have the right to force them out.

And thank you for confirming that you believe Muslims are stupid villagers.

 

[Muzza1875]

Both sides are scum, but judging by the actions of muslims in other countries, I'm going to support an ethnicity that will be wiped out otherwise.

You've only got to see the mass migration and persecution of other groups like Christians in the middle east, to see how fundementally intolerant most islamic countries are.

This

 

[B&W]

Read this blog about it last week. Pretty much sums it up TBH. Had to remove the colourful language, but you get the point.

COMPASSION FATIGUE – WHY THE WEST IS WASHING ITS HANDS
The night before the three Israeli teens were found dead, I had a particularly vivid nightmare. I have no doubt it was caused by seeing too many shots and videos of Isis barbarity; crucifixions, amputations, Muslim men lined up like cattle to be shot in a ditch by other Muslims.

I do not remember most of the dream, apart from the sequence that woke me up. Two children, around seven, were blindfolded and an ISIS terrorist was preparing to kill them. In my dream I screamed out for mercy, saying they were just children, and flung myself towards them and then I woke up, heart pounding, drenched in sweat.

Later in the same day, on Twitter, the UN posted a picture of a Syrian child reaching up for a hug. Assad and Putin are starving these children to death, operating mass torture factories. We didn’t act and now it’s too late. ISIS filled the gap left by Obama. And they spread. Evil against evil.

In Nigeria, Boko Haram kidnapped 90 more girls. These are Christian women who will be forced at gunpoint to pretend to convert to Islam, then raped for the rest of their lives to men to whom they are sold.

In the Sudan, Meriam Ibrahim, Christian, wife of one American and mother of two more, was released from Sudanese custody after the US embassy apologised – yes, apologised – for issuing her a visa. The Sudan is currently detaining her two American children and Obama is doing nothing.

When later that same day I heard the teenagers were found dead, I could not imagine the horror of their mothers, or fathom that Hamas – who at one stage wanted to be thought legitimate – would blatantly say nothing to admit guilt in kidnapping them and shooting them. How scared they must have been.

And my dream came back to me very vividly. How I had screamed out to the man begging him for mercy. I wanted to beg a sorrowing and vengeful Israel for mercy. Please, go after the killers but only them. Please, do not storm into the West Bank and engage in collective punishment. Because then somebody else’s boys might die. I said as much on Twitter and was immediately accused of being anti-Israeli, a typical European and an Arabist.

Israel went in and blew up the houses of the suspected kidnappers. These kidnappers have not been caught or tried, but their house was blown up. A child was injured. Another teen, Yusuf was his name – Joseph, in Western parlance, a Hebrew name – aged 18 was shot in the chest in a refugee camp in Jenin. IDF forces say he threw a grenade at them. Palestinians claim he was a passer by. One thing is for sure, neither the injured child nor the dead teen played any role in murdering the three Israeli boys. But they were the ones who were hurt. If Israel invades Gaza, civiliians, probably young children too, will die. That is a fact.

But to say as much is to be anti-Israeli? No; no. And to say to the Muslim world, your silence is disgusting on ISIS, your funding of Syrian terror is disgusting; you fat *******s in your radical mosques in Bradford and elsewhere, radicalising English boys and sending them off to die while you sit at home doing sod all but get fat. Fatness is a part of it. Fatness, slovenliness, warmongering from teststerone free ****ers who would no more endanger themselves than go for a jog in the morning or get a real job. Is that Islamophobia? God no, no it is not. Who is killing more Muslims than anybody else? Is it Obama’s drones or Israeli rockets? No, it’s OTHER ****** MUSLIMS – ISIS are the biggest Islamophobes in the whole world.

And so when I say to Israel for the love of G-d, go after those who took your boys and no more, and am greeted by a cry of traitor, I feel like putting my head in my hands.

I think it’s time for some straight talk.

Israel, I don’t care if you are tired of the word ‘restraint’. You need to show some. Because you are losing the West. You have no idea how badly you are losing the west. Yes, Hamas are terrorists. Yes, subhuman pigs slaughtered the Fogel children, and Palestinians just as subhuman celebrated that. By all means, go after them. But if you cannot go in precisely, do not go in at all. When the IRA bombed London we did not strike Dublin. We went after individuals. Israel, I say to you with my hand on my heart; the Gaza rocket strikes have killed NO ISRAELIS. They don’t WORK. They are the weak efforts of losers. you need to understand that the West does not think it is proportionate to reply to NO DEATH with DEATH. Would I stand for rockets, would I stand for my children with PTSD because of constant rocket fire, no I would not. But my answer would be just as the earlier operations in #BringBackOurBoys – go in and capture Hamas leaders and politicians. Take the individuals. Jail them. They are terrorists. Try them. In a court. Do not reply to NO DEATH with DEATH. Hamas strikes do not kill Israelis but Israeli strikes do kill Palestinian civilians. And the rest of the world believes this imbalance is wrong.

‘Screw you, why the hell should you care what we think?” Well, you should care because with every settlement you build you are losing American public opinion. And that means that American Jews VOTE DEMOCRAT. And that means you get Barack Obama as your President and John Kerry as Secretary of State. That means you get Syria. And ISIS. That means you weaken Israel. Materially. In terms.

Israel is the victim of amazing hatred, the hatred that posts swastikas on Facebook pages to celebrate the death of those three kidnapped boys. And Israel was right – absolutely right – to build that giant wall. No Israeli buses or cafés have blown up since. The rockets do nor work. Israelis are safe.

But dearest Israel, you have no right to be in the settlements. Nobody thinks you have a right to be in the settlements. The 2012 film the Gatekeepers, featuring the last six heads of the Shin Bet, showed Israeli intelligence forces did not want the settlements. There will be no peace and no security until the settlements come down. You must dismantle the settlements unless you wish to live in this sick and deadly farce until the end of time.

And Palestine. You must stop your vicious attacks, your celebration of dead Israeli babies taken from their cots and decapitated, of the four year old Fogel boy who was reading his book in his bed when they slit his throat. You come across as inhuman, subhuman hatemongers when you do that. You MUST RECOGNISE THE STATE OF ISRAEL and give up this right to return crap. The land belonged to the Jews before it belonged to you. It is theirs. They are not going anywhere. You should take the occupied territories and build on them and live in a two-state solution with peace.

And Muslims need to stop looking at Israel whose crimes are so few in comparison to those of Assad, of Putin, of ISIS, of Saddam – of the Saudi secret police who burned those girls alive for being improperly veiled. Jerusalem is the least of the enemies of the Ummah. The sick Iraqi cycle of Sunni in power, oppress Shia, Shia in power, oppress Sunni – Islam now is fighting as Christianity did in the 1500s, with all the accompanying tortures and burnings at the stake. They are crucifying other Muslims in Iraq. They are gassing Muslim children in Syria. They are stoning Muslim rape victims and lashing them. They are stoning mothers for adultery. They are hanging Iranian gay Muslim men. I know one thing, I know that Allah – that HaShem, that God – is ****ed off with the lot of us.

And here’s the thing. Feel free to ignore all this and write comments saying how awful I am and have no idea. But I will tell you something. The appetite of the ordinary Western voter to lift a finger – even to help in Syria as Muslim children starve – it has totally evaporated. The thought of Israel invading Gaza in some sick act of collective punishment leaves American and British voters cold. Nobody gives a flying **** anymore. The average Westerner is saying to themselves “these are a bunch of savages and who cares if they kill each other.” Iraq will get no help. Afghans will get none. Syrians will get none. We hear no cries of outrage from the Muslim world. We see no moves from Israel to move to a just peace and get out of territory that does not belong to Israel, the settlements. We see no willingness to compromise and nothing more than a bloody merry go round of torture and death by ******* adults who will throw children and families to the wind because they will never, ever back down.

And so we just don’t care.

And by “we” I mean almost all voters. Not me – I care, I care incredibly. I wanted targeted air strikes against Assad. Now instead we have ISIS crucifying Muslims and Syrian kids starving.

The Torah says, “Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord” – that means, it is mine to take; it is not yours to take. Te Qu’ran begins “In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.” Say it and believe it. What is He? What is He? Is Allah the Merciful pleased as you shoot teenage boys in the head for being Jews, or Muslims in a ditch because they follow a different sect to you?

The Middle East is the cradle of civilization. If it carries on like this, it will also be its grave.

And you will all – Israelis, Palestinians, and Arabs and Persians – you will all be on your own.​

A very very good read. I'm not a christian but I read somewhere

"It would behove the Jews and Muslims to act like christians in the middle east". Or in a christianly manner, something like that.

 

[bitslice]

I said "Israel on the other hand is almost always going to face this while the Palestinians have no state..." I didn't make any claims of an historic state of Palestine.

Yep, I wasn't sure if that was your point or not, but it seemed like a good place to talk about it.

The point stands regardless - the Palestinians are a stateless people at the moment.

But they always were, so no change.

Its actually a myth that there were no other people there - the Arabs/Palestinians were a very large majority

That's a bit like saying aboriginal nationalism gives aborigines a right to rule Australia

Although what Israel in doing now is arguably illegal, I can see their point in not wanting to be too close to groups that now represent the extremes of islam.

 

[B&W]

No I didn't


"The Facetard page pretends this is some innocent target!
Then moans about how a full minute is not enough to gather documents and children (in that order), lol."


The lol was aimed at the misleading BS on the Facetard page

Who knows what the lol was aimed at.

 

[Craterloads]

What, like the "U.N. Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples" where the US was ordered to pay compensation to the native Indians?

Yea that's exactly like handing someone else's country to a bunch of European Jews....

Since when a muslim pointed this out to other muslims
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/2846

Sorry but what has an Israeli article got anything to do with the question I posed to you regarding your claims that Nobel prizes some how relating to intelligence based off ethnic or religious make up?

And it's a rough guide to how advanced your culture is (or not)

Sorry my culture is a mix of British and South Asian, not sure how your Israeli article applies.

Add them up, subtract literacy and peace prizes.

Why not remove the Science one too then that will leave them with none....

A. About 1880

1880 what, what is the point you were making.

B. Because that is what they are still doing now, goat and sheep herding and some crops.

So you don't have a source to back up your claims only goat herders were living there at the time, I thought so. (I can say for a fact that wasn't the case but obviously your not interested in facts)

Secondly what is wrong with agriculture? why do you feel agriculture undermines claim of Palestinians to their homes?

 

[bitslice]

Who knows what the lol was aimed at.

Well me, I wrote it, that's why I'm explaining the obvious interpretation to you (again).

Not as you appeared to do, attach a lol to a sentence elsewhere in my post.



As this is the second time you've misread fairly simple posts, maybe you'd like to leave this alone?

 

[Muzza1875]

I bet you **** in your pants every time you see a muslim on the street..

Iran wasnt the one who dropped nuclear weapons on Japan.. If a terrorist like ISrael committing so many atrocities can have them then so can Iran.

It's sad and pathetic that counties are still trying to create nuclear weapons today knowing what they arw capable of . Existing countries that have them will not be getting rud if them soon but hopefully one day in far future we can get rid of nuclear weapons entirely.
Self defense bs about countries trying yo aquire nukes is bs.
If enemies like Israel wanted Iran wiped they would have done it by now.
I reckon Iran would use them in a jiffy though.

 

[B&W]

Well me, I wrote it, that's why I'm explaining the obvious interpretation to you (again).

Not as you appeared to do, attach a lol to a sentence elsewhere in my post.



As this is the second time you've misread fairly simple posts, maybe you'd like to leave this alone?

"The Facetard page pretends this is some innocent target!
Then moans about how a full minute is not enough to gather documents and children (in that order), lol."

You are laughing because someone is defending people whose houses have just been blown up and you find his reasoning stupid and hilarious aswell as his morality.

Perhaps not lolling at civilian deaths but close to and given your post history wouldnt be surprised if you did.

Yes it was a innocent target if there were civilians in there, its just terror in another way.

 

[bitslice]

Yea that's exactly like handing someone else's country to a bunch of European Jews....

As the League of Nations is the fore runner of the UN, then yes, it's exactly like that.

1880 what, what is the point you were making

In replay to your query of my statement "at the time the Jews moved into the state of Israel"

So you don't have a source to back up your claims only goat herders were living there at the time, I thought so.

Seriously? What do you think they were doing in Palestine in 1880? Making aeroplanes?

1867 Mark Twain
"Palestine is desolate and unlovely"

Not completely true, there were a few fertile areas where crops were grown and cattle raised, but it's still an agricultural economy.

 

[bitslice]

"The Facetard page pretends this is some innocent target!
Then moans about how a full minute is not enough to gather documents and children (in that order), lol."

You are laughing because someone is defending people whose houses have just been blown up and you find his reasoning stupid and hilarious aswell as his morality.

No I'm lolling because that page is lying BS.
Nobody 'had a minute to gather children' because everyone was clearly sitting 100m away watching it through a video camera, waiting for the drone to fire.


Yes it's sad that an empty house got blown up, but the Israelis are not going to waste really expensive missiles on an innocent chip shop are they?

Perhaps not lolling at civilian deaths but close to and given your post history wouldnt be surprised if you did.

Sorry, no it wasn't "close to" anything, either I said something or I didn't.
And I didn't.

So because you can't understand something, interpret as something entirely different - is it then sensible for you to then hypothesise on my other posts which you haven't read and clearly hope will contain something iffy?

Let's go with no, eh?

Yes it was a innocent target if there were civilians in there

Which there weren't, so it's not


Right, have you finished trying to twist something out of a three line post?

 

[Craterloads]

As the League of Nations is the fore runner of the UN, then yes, it's exactly like that.

Not sure you quite grasp the difference between the two outcomes and reasoning behind them. Not to mention the validity of a newly created UN which was heavily influenced by Jews of the time, against the wishes of the actual population of the land, decision.

In replay to your query of my statement "at the time the Jews moved into the state of Israel"

That's not a point, ill ask again what was your point? Your argument was at the time in 1880 there were only goat herders living there (which obviously isn't true) but what is your point.

Seriously? What do you think they were doing in Palestine in 1880? Making aeroplanes?

Please provide a source that only goat herders where living there. As I thought it was largely crops that drove their economy rather than herding goats.

And B, what does it matter their line of occupation?

[Not completely true, there were a few fertile areas where crops were grown and cattle raised, but it's still an agricultural economy.

Actually crops is one of and historically a large part of their economy, but not the only one. They have various industries including textile, manufacturing and more. Are you willing to accept your assertions than the land only had goat herders on it was incorrect and the actual funny thing, that it is an irrelevant point to make as the occupation of the people living their has little relationship to Jews moving in?



You also ignored a few points that I would like clarification on please

Sorry but what has an Israeli article got anything to do with the question I posed to you regarding your claims that Nobel prizes some how relating to intelligence based off ethnic or religious make up?

Sorry my culture is a mix of British and South Asian, not sure how your Israeli article applies.

 

[ak22]

Don't feed the troll..

 

[wesley]

i never understood the problem.

any anyone summary?

 

[bitslice]

Not sure you quite grasp the difference between the two outcomes and reasoning behind them. Not to mention the validity of a newly created UN which was heavily influenced by Jews of the time, against the wishes of the actual population of the land, decision.

Well that's not how the UN (or Europe) works.

That's not a point, ill ask again what was your point?

That these were just native peoples, not a sovereign state?

Please provide a source that only goat herders where living there. As I thought it was largely crops that drove their economy rather than herding goats.

I think you are being pointlessly literal here, when describing a peasant population do you list every peasant trade with which they occupy themselves, or do you just call them peasants (or goat herders, or wheat growers or whatever)

And B, what does it matter their line of occupation?

Ask yourself, you keep asking it?
To me goat herders is a description of the technological level of people at the time.

Are you willing to accept your assertions than the land only had goat herders on it was incorrect and the actual funny thing, that it is an irrelevant point to make as the occupation of the people living their has little relationship to Jews moving in?

It's relevant because once again their fate had been decided by technologically superior countries just as it had been when they were ruled by the Ottoman empire. Peasants don't get to decide who they are ruled by, they just get ruled.

You also ignored a few points that I would like clarification on please

The lack of Nobels can be traced back to Islamic society, nobody wants to work in a repressive environment, so unless they can escape to the west, nothing of note is done. S.Korea just lacks interaction. I've got a nice paper on this somewhere.
Intelligence was your wording, I'm putting it down as a side effect of your culture.

Last point, sarcasm?

 

[Caged]

Ask yourself, you keep asking it?
To me goat herders is a description of the technological level of people at the time.

The question is how is is relevant to people's rights to live where they are currently living? Either you really don't understand or you're being wilfully ignorant. Why does being a less technologically advanced group of people give you a lesser claim to the land?

 

[ilcp]

The question is how is is relevant to people's rights to live where they are currently living? Either you really don't understand or you're being wilfully ignorant. Why does being a less technologically advanced group of people give you a lesser claim to the land?

because they are muslim.. If they werent, he wouldnt have gone down that road.. simples.. sorry but he has really irked me.. He thinks what Israel is doing is good by forcing people out of their own homes, forcing them all back and now MAJORITY is living in smaller patch of land wheras the minority is living in huge amount of lands..

 

[ak22]

i never understood the problem.

any anyone summary?

To sum up after the WW2 (1947) the U.N decided to divided Palestine to give the Jewish people a state of their own. Rather than adhering to the principle of “self-determination of peoples” in which the people themselves create their own state and system of government.

UN chose a strategy whereby an outside power divides up other people’s land. Under considerable Zionist pressure, the UN recommended giving away 55% of Palestine to a Jewish state – despite the fact that this group represented only about 30% of the total population, and owned under 7% of the land.

(Under the UN own law, they had no right to make this decision.)

For the Zionists this 'partition plan' represented the creation of a safe haven from centuries of persecution in Europe, over 750,000 Palestinians half the native population of Palestine at the time -- fled or were expelled from what became Israel and were prevented from returning home by force of arms. Since then more wars have happen and Palestine is not even on the map today....

Theres a lot more to read into this i tried to sum it up without witting a assay