** January Transfer Window 2011/12 Season Rumours/Signings **

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FrankJH said:
do real DM's exist anymore (in the EPL) - or are they more in the mold of "box to box" midfielders like Keane and Fletcher?
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Well there's Lucas, he's certainly not box to box in the sense that he gets involved in the final 3rd and gets goals and assists. There's also Mikel but he's crap and has seemingly been ousted by Romeu who tbh has the ability to be whatever he wants.

Romeu is probably the perfect type of player for us tbh, not an out and out defensive midfielder but more of a holding player with a good passing range. Basically a younger Carrick with a lot more potential. Problem for Chelsea with him though is he's already talking about going back to Barca
 
Tom84 said:
We've never played with a DM and wont whilst SAF is still in charge
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Yes, you have, frequently, Keane was certainly the defensive minded player alongside someone like Scholes, DM's don't HAVE to be inept going forwards. Tiote is without question a DM, just because he can pass and run forwards(though he rarely gets that far and too date has one goal).

More recently (by recent I guess that is basically 3 years now) Carrick has been playing deeper, he's crap at it and one of the main reasons he's been so crap for a long time.

A DM doesn't have to go and put DM down on his birth certificate for it to count. Whoever the more defensive player in the midfield pair(or trio, or two players of a trio, or painfully two defensive players in a pair) IS the DM.

Just like, when Rio goes in goal because of a red card..... he's a goalkeeper, even though he isn't normally a goalkeeper.

Utd have always, and will always have a more defensive minded midfielder. Keane was brilliant at it, not least by encouraging fear of leg breaking by going past him.

Gilberto was a world class DM, and yet he scored 12 goals one season. Makelele was a DM and his game was to simply not go forwards, that doesn't make only players who play identically to Makelele a DM, that was just his version of it.

Utd have lacked a killer defensive minded, or defensive covering central midfielder for years. Fletcher keeps getting called the "spoiler" during his supposedly best time a couple seasons ago, what do you think he was doing, he was playing DM, this didn't stop him getting forward either.

Utd simply need new midfielders, and its natural in ANY football team to have one who is naturally gifted and very good at helping out defensively, and one who is excellent going forward. Lampard played as the DM for England for many years, and wasn't bad at it, nor brilliant but his offensive game suffered badly for England.

Had Utd had someone defensively minded in midfield, maybe they wouldn't allow so many shots on target and leave the defence so open, which has been their main problem this season, allowing more shots on goal than really ever before. I'll point out again that De Gea has averaged more saves per game than any of the main keepers this season and kept roughly as many clean sheets per game as well.
 
Tom84 said:
Well there's Lucas, he's certainly not box to box in the sense that he gets involved in the final 3rd and gets goals and assists. There's also Mikel but he's crap and has seemingly been ousted by Romeu who tbh has the ability to be whatever he wants.

Romeu is probably the perfect type of player for us tbh, not an out and out defensive midfielder but more of a holding player with a good passing range. Basically a younger Carrick with a lot more potential. Problem for Chelsea with him though is he's already talking about going back to Barca
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Lucas, Fletcher, Mikel, Romeu, Wilshire(we played him as a DM, he is really more offensive) Song(ish), we're currently playing Arteta more as a DM than AM, Tiote, Parker, Palacios, Catermole, Etuhu, Rodwell(probably, don't watch Everton that much this year), etc, etc.
 
The Times and a few other places are reporting that Liverpool and City are battling it out for Birmingham's 17 year old winger Nathan Redmond, with Birmingham demanding up to £12m for him.

I've not seen much of him so I've got no idea whether he's worth it but the reports are also saying that neither City or ourselves are willing to pay that much for him.
 
drunkenmaster said:
Makelele was a DM and his game was to simply not go forwards, that doesn't make only players who play identically to Makelele a DM, that was just his version of it.
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And there lies the difference between a defensive midfielder, a holding/sitting midfielder and a box to box midfielder/being the more defensively minded of a 2/3

Carrick isn't a defensive midfielder in that he tackles players left right and centre like De Jong does nor does, nor does he run all over the pitch going from box to box whilst being the more defensively minded of his midfield partner like Parker does. Carrick does the same as what Busquets does, sit in midfield intercept passes and build play from there

It's very clear who's the DM there, who's box to box and who's the holding player.
 
cm1179 said:
yeh, i mean, giggs is only 5 yrs older!

lampard would go to spurs over united anyway
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Well,

1. Giggs is fairly unusual, how many others can you name that play such a demanding position at that age in the top flight?

2. I wouldn't sign Giggs now! It's very well having a player age in the squad but signing a 33 year old is unusual.
 
Shamikebab said:
Well,

1. Giggs is fairly unusual, how many others can you name that play such a demanding position at that age in the top flight?

2. I wouldn't sign Giggs now! It's very well having a player age in the squad but signing a 33 year old is unusual.
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Sky are making a really big deal out of Fergie not actually denying an interest in Lampard :D

I can see an advantage in maybe bringing in experience to the squad after the loss of VDS, Neville & Scholes but surely the answer is a certain ex United player currently out of contract with his current LA side ;) :cool:
 
Tom84 said:
Carrick does the same as what Busquets does, sit in midfield intercept passes and build play from there
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Yes, well done, that is the definition of a DM. The guy who does his best to break up attacks.

You do not have to tackle constantly to be a DM, the best DM's DON'T tackle all the time, Makelele's biggest strength was reading the game and intercepting passes and giving the ball to someone to push forwards quickly.

Busquets is a defensive midfielder, and just to point out how defensive he is, he has played CB plenty of times for Barca. Carrick never really started off as defensive but slipped into that role in the absence of Fletcher. When it was Scholes/Anderson you would usually see Scholes sit a lot deeper than normal and try to be the DM.

Jones plays as centreback and now and then runs the length of the field and tries to score, so does Terry, Gallas, Kolo and very rarely Kompany, does that suddenly make them box to box players.

Gerrard is a "box to box" player, you would in no way call him more defensive minded than Alonso or Lucas, both of whom played deeper and break up play, intercept passes, tackle if required and foul if it seems the safer option.

When you play mostly between your own box and the half way line, you're the teams DM.
 
Shamikebab said:
Well,

1. Giggs is fairly unusual, how many others can you name that play such a demanding position at that age in the top flight?

2. I wouldn't sign Giggs now! It's very well having a player age in the squad but signing a 33 year old is unusual.
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Giggs isn't unusual in the slightest. When did most premier league players stop, maybe around 35 ish? That was happening 10-20 years ago, when those guys started there was barely training, drinking the night before and training hungover. they were "athletes" while Giggs and the current batch mostly are.

Most players can play longer, thing is the longer you play the more chance for a career shortening bad injury. Most players these days who have trained somewhat as an athlete rather than a drunk who likes to play football SHOULD be able to play to 35-40 pretty easily assuming they don't pick up a bad injury.

Think about how many players used to pick up terrible injuries and retire in the mid to late twenties, the unhealthy injury plagued players are all playing much longer than they used to and recovering better, and the injury free players are playing longer.

The last factor is, hunger, want, need. If Utd hadn't offered Giggs new contracts, would he have gone to some league 1 side to play for 3 more years on 10k a week? probably not, he probably would have retired if Fergie hadn't decided to give him another contract. A lot of 30-35 year olds will be, multi millionaires, have problems with pain and joints and general problems athletes have and wonder if its worth bothering any more, at some point beyond 20-30million, its just numbers..... with that much cash you can invest wisely and never need to earn more money yourself in your life.

The difference with Giggs then, is hunger and Fergie giving him the option to continue at a non embarrassing level.
 
Wonder how good Tiote can become?

Couple of things which could do with improving:-

1. Amount of yellow cards - although this has become better since last season.

2. The amount of time it takes him to start firing on all cylinders after a lay off - both at the start of this season and after his knee injury he looked awful, then eventually picked up his game hitting it's peak against Man Utd on Wednesday.
 
drunkenmaster said:
Carrick never really started off as defensive but slipped into that role in the absence of Fletcher.
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So Carrick's only been a holding player for the last year?

drunkenmaster said:
Gerrard is a "box to box" player, you would in no way call him more defensive minded than Alonso or Lucas, both of whom played deeper and break up play, intercept passes, tackle if required and foul if it seems the safer option.
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So you're saying Alonso was a defensive midfielder at Liverpool?

drunkenmaster said:
When you play mostly between your own box and the half way line, you're the teams DM.
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No you're not. That's why you have the term Holding Midfielder. Is Lucas a holding midfielder in that he very rarely strays from in front of his back 4? No he runs his socks off tackling all areas of the pitch, that doesn't make him box to box either just FYI. In no circumstances would anyone compare the playing styles of Carrick with Lucas as their roles in the team are completely different.

This all boils down to who you think Man Utd should sign as you simply said we needed a DM whereas my interpretation of a DM is totally different to what Carrick, Fletcher or Keane in his prime are/were
 
Apparently David Anderson (Daily Mirror) has posted in his twitter account the Liverpool have signed Bent! Have not checked twitter myself as i don't have an account. Read all this in sportal.bg.
 
xxShinobixx said:
Apparently David Anderson (Daily Mirror) has posted in his twitter account the Liverpool have signed Bent! Have not checked twitter myself as i don't have an account. Read all this in sportal.bg.
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He did, but it got deleted quickly after.
'reports' say a colleague did it for a laugh.
 
An argument based on semantics

Let me throw another word in the mix for you to argue about, Carrick = regista
 
EvilFranky said:
Wonder how good Tiote can become?

Couple of things which could do with improving:-

1. Amount of yellow cards - although this has become better since last season.

2. The amount of time it takes him to start firing on all cylinders after a lay off - both at the start of this season and after his knee injury he looked awful, then eventually picked up his game hitting it's peak against Man Utd on Wednesday.
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Tiote is always going to pick up yellow cards no matter how much he trys. It's just in his game. In no way is he a dirty player but the amount of tackles he makes in a game he will get few wrong.

He's like a rash that never goes away.

When he wins the ball he is always turning, looking to play it forward.

Good time to buy he's still youngish and hungry for success. He got the attitude to match.
 
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