*January Transfer Window 2014/15 Season Rumours/Signings*

Moses said:
It was €51m. And that's not 'nothing compared to a lot of sales nowadays', if you take into account football inflation. Nominally it's still a lot for a 'keeper... but in real terms it's a lot for basically anyone!
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goalkeeper_(association_football)

seems to suggest it was 41m euros but I have seen a few links since suggesting it was 51m so I don't know which is correct.

Seeing as nearly every other transfer of a major outfield player seems to be around the £30m mark or more, 41m euros (for such a crucial player) does seem to be relatively small
 
Moses said:
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Sorry but that's nonsense, because there is no way of qualifying if Utd would have bought Rooney for £77m or the negotiations would have gone the same way

and no I never said £77m was a small amount of money, stop twisting what I was obviously meaning
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FrankJH said:
is Lloris anywhere as good as Courtois or De Gea (latter two cant be split imo)

IF "no" then any amount of money to keep De Gea is worth it, given (hopefully) CL football next season , not to mention more English cup football

I have nothing against Lloris, but sometimes he does remind me a little of Barthez.....

I think the world record for a GK is still the Buffon sale to Juve in 2001 isn't it , around 40m euros? Which is nothing (and a long time ago considering everything) compared to a lot of sales now adays.

Im not saying it will count for anything at all - but I would hope at the very least De Gea would sign a new contract at the very least to respect what Man Utd have helped him achieve and "give" the club what they deserve for backing him for those first two -ish dodgy seasons

Its not like Real are going to run out of money any time soon hahaha
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I'm not sure how to answer that Frank. I'm not even sure how any of that relates to what I said. I was answering a question as to why people don't spend big on keepers.

As Moses mentioned the benefits of having De Gea over just a very good goalkeeper are relatively small. The gains are even smaller at bigger clubs where their keeper is going to be called upon far less frequently. The amount it would cost to sign De Gea (if he signs a new deal) over a Lloris or Begovic would be massive though. That's why imo you rarely see top keepers moving as it's difficult to justify paying the premium.
 
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BaZ87 said:
I'm not sure how to answer that Frank. I'm not even sure how any of that relates to what I said. I was answering a question as to why people don't spend big on keepers.

As Moses mentioned the benefits of having De Gea over just a very good goalkeeper are relatively small. The gains are even smaller at bigger clubs where their keeper is going to be called upon far less frequently. The amount it would cost to sign De Gea (if he signs a new deal) over a Lloris or Begovic would be massive though. That's why imo you rarely see top keepers moving as it's difficult to justify paying the premium.
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putting it another way - given the quality of the teams in the latter parts of the CL (as well as chasing for the title in the EPL etc), its one goal from Aguerro or Messi that may make all the difference, and imo De Gea is more likely to make that difference than LLoris or anyone else (even with a better defence in front of him).
 
What's the chances of getting into the position, what's then the chances of 1 goal determining the outcome of the game/tie and then what's the chances that De Gea will make a save that would win the game/tie that Lloris or similar wouldn't?

What you're suggesting is so unlikely to happen that, imo, you can't justify paying an additional £40m (once you factor in the bigger transfer fee, higher wages over 4-5 years and all other fees involved).
 
Lloris is shaky anyway. Forget that for big money.

We have victor valdes.

What i want to knownis after failing in the per suit of all these centre backs, when will we look at a right back?
 
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To me it feels like LVG yesterday had a good selection of players to pick from and just simply didn't pick the right team or formation and didn't pick the right subs.

The only difference between Moyes is that at least LVG admitted he messed up.

The fact it feels like the fans could have done better in terms of team selection does not help the situation.

Maybe someone here can explain why the likes of Herrera and Falcao didn't start?
 
Hutchy said:
Maybe someone here can explain why the likes of Herrera and Falcao didn't start?
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Falcao was a gamble that seemingly doesn't look like paying off so you can understand him not starting, not sure why he didn't make the bench though.

Herrera's a bit more complex I think. It looks like he was a signing the club wanted and LvG ok'd rather than specifically wanted. And with LvG wanting to play a 3-5-2, it's difficult for him to fit in. He's not getting in the side as the holding midfielder and LvG seemingly wants very attacking players in the 2 positions just ahead.
 
BaZ87 said:
Falcao was a gamble that seemingly doesn't look like paying off so you can understand him not starting, not sure why he didn't make the bench though.

Herrera's a bit more complex I think. It looks like he was a signing the club wanted and LvG ok'd rather than specifically wanted. And with LvG wanting to play a 3-5-2, it's difficult for him to fit in. He's not getting in the side as the holding midfielder and LvG seemingly wants very attacking players in the 2 positions just ahead.
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Falcao I think was possibly down to the amount he played over christmas coupled with his still seemingly fragile state.

With regards to Herrera, I think his injury came at an unfortunate time. When he first arrived he looked great and was really making us tick along with Blind, for me it was still when we played better football, but then Fellaini got into a run of form and took his place and he's sort of struggled to get back into the side & regain sharpness since.

It's also paired with Rooney's drop back into midfield, I think if he was still using Rooney as a striker there is room for Herrera but if you're going to use Rooney in the middle and RvP / Falcao / whoever up front then it's tough to see him starting each game (rightfully or wrongfully.)
 
Yeah I don't think there's really a place in the team for Herrera unfortunately. Realistically the only position he could play is the one Carrick is occupying at the moment, and he's done a good job since coming back from injury.

I think it's clear as day that LvG stuffed up the tactics yesterday, and I really don't get why he put Wilson on the bench instead of Falcao if he had no intention of bringing him on. With all respect to Wilson, he's too young to really come on and have a big impact, whereas I think Falcao could have helped us back into the game yesterday, I feel like he probably would have put away one of those chances Mata had.
 
BaZ87 said:
What's the chances of getting into the position, what's then the chances of 1 goal determining the outcome of the game/tie and then what's the chances that De Gea will make a save that would win the game/tie that Lloris or similar wouldn't?

What you're suggesting is so unlikely to happen that, imo, you can't justify paying an additional £40m (once you factor in the bigger transfer fee, higher wages over 4-5 years and all other fees involved).
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1stly you dont know how much it will be "extra" - I dont know how long Lloris has left at Spurs, but Utd will be lucky to get £25m for De Gea if he goes in the summer with one season remaining. Its also highly unlikely spurs will sell their no1 for anything like that unless his contract is running out in a similar amount of time.

Its also worth pointing out that its rare a team as big as Utd sell their No 1 player to a probable direct CL rival (look how much uproar happened about Di Maria even for £60m, Utd fans would rightly mutiny letting go of such a talent).

In your way, Utd would still end up paying the same amount to upgrade Lloris' contract (IF he ends up being good enough) in a few years time anyway so its not exactly going to make a big difference. Utd are also letting go of a player who they have put a lot of effort etc into backing to the hilt (not ignoriing his hard work also of course), and are only just starting to benefit from that.

Cant believe you would also say anything different if we were talking about a world class gk at Liverpool in the same situation

nicktay2605 said:
Yeah I don't think there's really a place in the team for Herrera unfortunately. Realistically the only position he could play is the one Carrick is occupying at the moment, and he's done a good job since coming back from injury.
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Herrera is SO not a DM its untrue. Playing a diamond (which is what Utd should do when the defence is sorted out), Herrera is a brilliant player ahead of the likes of Carrick /Blind/ Strootman? to go alongside Rooney or Di Maria and behind Mata / Rooney with two strikers ahead

Even as part of a 3 Herrera is a fantastic option to have depending on the team Utd are facing.

Herrera is a wonderful midfielder, really glad Utd got him (eventually), has an eye for goal (and from CM thats always a bonus) has a decent tackle but also the flair required. He has been frustrated with his rib injury and LvG chosing the wrong tactics / starting personnel for quite a few games in the last month or so, but he will be a mainstay in the squad for some time I hope.
 
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Have you managed to lose track of the conversation?

I initially claimed that if De Gea signs a new deal then I can't see him moving as I don't believe anybody would be willing to pay what it would take to persuade Utd to sell him. Fez then made a point questioning why teams won't pay big money on keepers.

De Gea and Lloris were just used as examples to explain why I don't think teams will pay massive money on a keeper. De Gea on a long term contract will cost far more than Lloris would cost yet the benefit is fairly small. The difference in ability between the top 2-3 keepers in the world and the 3rd-10th best isn't massive. The cost difference to sign them is though.

Please keep up Frank :)
 
BaZ87 said:
Have you managed to lose track of the conversation?

I initially claimed that if De Gea signs a new deal then I can't see him moving as I don't believe anybody would be willing to pay what it would take to persuade Utd to sell him. Fez then made a point questioning why teams won't pay big money on keepers.

De Gea and Lloris were just used as examples to explain why I don't think teams will pay massive money on a keeper. De Gea on a long term contract will cost far more than Lloris would cost yet the benefit is fairly small. The difference in ability between the top 2-3 keepers in the world and the 3rd-10th best isn't massive. The cost difference to sign them is though.

Please keep up Frank :)
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When do RM ever care about costs?

It certainly sounded like you were advocating giving up De Gea and buying Lloris as a replacement even in your last post
 
I'm not sure how it sounded like selling De Gea and buying Lloris when I mentioned the cost difference in buying both. Surely that makes it plainly obvious I was talking about another team deciding on which to sign.

I certainly wouldn't say it was impossible but Real do care. As I said in the first post you quoted, Perez is happy to spend big on star name attacking players, not so much for defensive or less glamorous signings.
 
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BaZ87 said:
I'm not sure how it sounded like selling De Gea and buying Lloris when I mentioned the cost difference in buying both. Surely that makes it plainly obvious I was talking about another team deciding on which to sign.

I certainly wouldn't say it was impossible but Real do care. As I said in the first post you quoted, Perez is happy to spend big on star name attacking players, not so much for defensive or less glamorous signings.
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In that same quote your first paragraph seems to imply just that.

Personally yes I think its more likely currently that De Gea will save that one goal that could make all the difference, where as anyone else may not (he has already done it a few times in the EPL this season, no reason to suggest he wont in the CL if /when Utd return)
 
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