*January Transfer Window 2014/15 Season Rumours/Signings*

Didn't Ronaldo sign a new deal on the basis that he was always going to leave and just wanted to maximise the amount of money we got? Couldn't De Gea do similar?

Doubt it. He signs a new deal to maximize his wages with what turned out to be a deal to let him go in x months time. I'm sure the deal was beneficial to both parties and I doubt loyalty has anything to do with it. After all he's at his dream club and will use methods to bump his wages as he see's fit.

Dea Gea would be a mug to do that. As I said will they say in 10 years time, thanks for your loyalty we now have a new no1 but we will keep you on 200k per week for another deal to say thanks. Or will they offer him a 1 year reduced deal like Arsenal and the like do when players start to fade?

I mean why haven't Liverpool shown Gerrard a £150k per year for 4 years just to say thanks for sticking with us? Or Lampard at Chelsea. Thanks for all the goals and not leaving Frank, he's 200k per week.
 
How do Chelsea do this with transfers. Buy an alright player for 18m, barely play him and then get 23m a few seasons later.

Tis true. Look at mata, they didn't even want him and made a profit.

compare to how much we lost on kagawa, veron, bebe, forlan, and how much we will lose on rvp, mata. Jesus we even lost money on van nistelcheese!
 
Tis true. Look at mata, they didn't even want him and made a profit.

compare to how much we lost on kagawa, veron, bebe, forlan, and how much we will lose on rvp, mata. Jesus we even lost money on van nistelcheese!

That's only recently they have done well in the market on players they want rid of, you could write a list of players Chelsea lost money on too I'm sure. Torres and Shevchenko for starters would balance out those Manu losses :D Or the 21m they paid for SWP who later left for a third. 10m they paid for Scott Parker which by todays standards would be huge. Chelsea also lost 14m on veron, probably more than United when you consider they paid he wages on loan. 18m on Yuri Zhirkov. I'm sure there are many more.
 
Yeah that's fair enough that everyone over sends but apart from c ronaldo I'm struggling to think of any profits we've made on sales lately. Maybe a mill on heinze?

Most we sell for a loss.

checkout Henriquez, 'not up to much manucho', maybe buttner. Tosic just about broke evens.
 
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He'll be at AC Milan in 4 years IMO.
 
Yeah that's fair enough that everyone over sends but apart from c ronaldo I'm struggling to think of any profits we've made on sales lately. Maybe a mill on heinze?

Look on the brightside, it could be because not a lot of your best players have been leaving or when they have it's towards the end of their careers. You could have sold a lot of players over the years for profit but luckily they have stayed until the value dropped after getting the best from them. Getting the best years from a player is surely better.
 
Look on the brightside, it could be because not a lot of your best players have been leaving or when they have it's towards the end of their careers. You could have sold a lot of players over the years for profit but luckily they have stayed until the value dropped after getting the best from them. Getting the best years from a player is surely better.

Not in his world. :p It's just another stick to beat the club with.
 
Fletcher wouldn't be the first choice on the teamsheet at West Ham either. Odd signing really.

West Ham keeping tracks on Mings at Ipswich too but been told £10m.
 
They only stuck by him when he was still the best option. The only alternative was to splash the cash on a new 'keeper and say he was an £18m failure.

IMO, he'd be mad to sign a contract out of some fairly silly idea of loyalty. Yes, loyalty is important to an extent, but we're not talking about small figures - I'd say loyalty in terms of not flirting with an exit/not letting his standards drop to force a move/etc is important... taking a massive personal financial hit, not so much.

Say he signs a contract and then Real have to pay £50m, that weakens his negotiating position with Real significantly. For example, he could sign a five year deal with Real, he'd already be costing them £10m/year in terms of FFP/in accounting terms, then throw £150k/week on top of that and he's costing them another £7.5m/year... so £17.5m/year in total. Instead, consider him signing on a Bosman and he could ask for £200k/week and still cost them significantly less per year in accounting/FFP terms (£10m/year, instead of £17.5m/year).

Real could get him for five years and it cost them a TOTAL of £50m, with De Gea getting £50m of that. Or he could sign a deal with Manyoo to benefit them, with Real getting him for five years and it costing them a TOTAL of £87.5m, with De Gea getting £37.5m of that. (That's ignoring any hypothetical cut of a transfer fee going to the player, of course... but even if De Gea got the hypothetical earnings shortfall corrected by that, the additional cost to Real could put the move at risk... would De Gea take that risk, if it is the dream move?)

There's no way he's leaving on a free. His contract runs until summer 2016, not this year, so if it becomes clear over the next few months that he doesn't want to sign a new deal United will then look to sell him to Real. Admittedly that means Real will probably end up paying less for him than they would have if he went on a free the following summer, but there's no chance of that happening. Real will still have to pay £25 million or more for him despite the contract situation, it just means that what could have been £40 million or more will be £10-15 million less.
 
They only stuck by him when he was still the best option. The only alternative was to splash the cash on a new 'keeper and say he was an £18m failure.

IMO, he'd be mad to sign a contract out of some fairly silly idea of loyalty. Yes, loyalty is important to an extent, but we're not talking about small figures - I'd say loyalty in terms of not flirting with an exit/not letting his standards drop to force a move/etc is important... taking a massive personal financial hit, not so much.

Say he signs a contract and then Real have to pay £50m, that weakens his negotiating position with Real significantly. For example, he could sign a five year deal with Real, he'd already be costing them £10m/year in terms of FFP/in accounting terms, then throw £150k/week on top of that and he's costing them another £7.5m/year... so £17.5m/year in total. Instead, consider him signing on a Bosman and he could ask for £200k/week and still cost them significantly less per year in accounting/FFP terms (£10m/year, instead of £17.5m/year).

Real could get him for five years and it cost them a TOTAL of £50m, with De Gea getting £50m of that. Or he could sign a deal with Manyoo to benefit them, with Real getting him for five years and it costing them a TOTAL of £87.5m, with De Gea getting £37.5m of that. (That's ignoring any hypothetical cut of a transfer fee going to the player, of course... but even if De Gea got the hypothetical earnings shortfall corrected by that, the additional cost to Real could put the move at risk... would De Gea take that risk, if it is the dream move?)

First I'd just point out to everyone that Utd never had to stand by him, he was a top keeper straight off, he had dodgy games, every keeper does. He was never at all shocking and yes the media were all over his back because the media and fans are by and large useless. He was a very good keeper when he joined, he's improved, it was drastically exaggerated how bad his realistically few particularly bad games were.

Second, you're discounting two major things in regards to what money De Gea can get. Firstly he can use walking out on a bosman to join Real as a negotiating point to get that 200k a week out of Utd to begin with, then when Real came a knocking, he could use his existing 200k a week to negotiate for an even higher wage from them. Thus he could get 200k a week(instead of whatever he is on) for the year or more till he can actually sign for Real then get even more when he signs for Real... win win basically.

Player has all the power, the other thing you're discounting in regards to a move to real is star power, statement making.

Bale wasn't on a massive amount at Spurs yet signed for a monumental deal dwarfing most other players even at Real... why, big money deal. When Real/Barca go and make a big deal, it's a bigggg deal, they make it a big deal, they throw big wages and make a huge press hoohaa and work out deals with sponsors for bonuses and the like.

After a certain point a transfer becomes so high profile that clubs want to be seen as not just spending crazy but make it appear like they are getting the best player in the world in that position and will give out wages appropriately. So a £50mil transfer for a keeper wouldn't likely reduce the wage.

Smaller scale deals at clubs not spending just to make a statement(which is basically everyone outside of Bayern, Real, Barca and to a lesser degree a few of the top english clubs) might have this wages vs transfer issue where a bosman becomes a useful tool for getting better wages.

Taking the Chamakh deal, he wasn't a huge name, he was a budget signing as back up(at best) meaning total value of the deal was important to us and he got a huge raise on a free transfer rather than coming 6-12 months earlier on lower wages. It both helped that his existing club and Arsenal didn't regard him as irreplaceable or almost one of a kind nor did they have the money to offer Chamakh to get him to stay should he actually be that good.

But we're talking about deals where value is of paramount importance. With Real/Barca value isn't top of the list in factors when considering a deal like this, making a statement, intimidation, getting a one of a kind(supposedly) player, telling everyone you can't match them financially, no one else can spend £80mil AND make a profit still.

In this situation as above De Gea is at a club that can afford huge wages, he's one of the best in the world in his position, only a couple of clubs could afford those types of wages and the only bigger clubs he could move to would happily make a 'statement' transfer with high wages to go along with it. He has little to lose in signing a contract because he can get those huge wages now, then if he wants to force his way out, he can and Utd would get a decent value for him... then Utd, De Gea and Real get what they want. Could Real spend less and still get him, sure... do they need to, no, is value for money what they are looking for, nope.
 
Look on the brightside, it could be because not a lot of your best players have been leaving or when they have it's towards the end of their careers. You could have sold a lot of players over the years for profit but luckily they have stayed until the value dropped after getting the best from them. Getting the best years from a player is surely better.

Yes it's possible but not in all cases. Consider the berbatov and potentially nani, ANDERSON, etc
 
It was an example of how signing a new deal wouldn't necessarily be in his interests/helping Manyoo get a larger fee could well be to his personal detriment, rather than claiming to cover every possibility.

And there clearly is a risk he'll leave for a free (if the club accept an offer he's not obliged to leave this summer, obviously)... he could do that and still be first choice next year - think of Lewandowski and how we left Dortmund. Or he could use that as a threat if they ask for a too big a fee in the summer.

Again with Lewandoski he was at a club that simply couldn't afford to give him a huge new contract, Man Utd/De Gea aren't remotely comparable in this situation.

Did Ronaldo lose out on a massive wage at Real by signing a new deal at Utd, did Bale in the same situation, did James. All these guys signed new deals, made more money then made big money moves and made even more money.

If Dortmund could offer Lewandoksi even 100k a week let alone 150-200k a week he'd have signed a while ago and left maybe same time for a fee or a year or two later, even then he would once again have a higher wage to use to ask for more from Bayern. On 50k at Dortmund, 100k looks big, 150k looks gigantic, on 100k at Dortmund and 150k looks decent, 200k looks really big... etc. Like any job, if someone headhunts you and knows what you're on, your existing wage effects the offer you get. It's another reason bigger players from a far smaller group of players at the same level will end up with big wages regardless. When you have 3 or 4 truly great keepers around Real don't have many options, De Gea holds all the cards. When buying one 5-10mil rated player, if he gets uppity and wants way to much there are a dozen more options at the same level at least.
 
Maybe all those players you mention did sign new deals only to move and earn even more. The simple fact of the matter is that had Real not had to folk out £60-80m on them then their bargaining position would have been even greater and they would almost certainly secured themselves an even more lucrative contract.

If De Gea signs a new deal then he'll almost price himself out of a move as I'd be shocked if Real paid mega money on a keeper.

De Gea's in a great position right now and it's no surprise that he's in no hurry to sign. Utd are desperate to tie him down, even if only to protect his value and he's also likely to have offers from other clubs for massive money due to his contract situation making it possible that he could leave on the cheap (relatively speaking).
 
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This argument is based on a transfer history that is not entirely appropriate.

FFP is in full swing now whereas with older transfers it was either not applicable or clubs were in a transitionary period (insofar as they were still building up a body of years for the FFP look back provision and penalties were unknown).
 
I don't see why people think that just because a players fee is going to be less than if he had a long contract, he will suddenly get massive wages at a new club.

If Reus wants to go to RM he will get paid whatever they are willing to offer which will probably be based on his age, position in the squad and the wages of those around him. You pay him £250k / week off the bat then what happens when it comes to renegotiate in a few years. What happens to other star players that are only on £200k / week. They don't give a **** whether you paid a penny or a billion for their teammate, they want parity or more than player x.

Clubs have wage structures and if a player wants to play at a certain club that gives them a better bargaining position. Its really not as simple as some are saying.
 
I remember Robbie Keane had a clause in his contract at Spurs that if the club signed any new player and he was getting paid more then his wage would increase to match it. Clever but infuriating for the club no doubt.
 
In the world of FFP, combined transfer fee (well, annual amortisation cost) + wages is what matters. Eg. Reus' negotiating position is based on the fact that clubs like Citeh and Chelsea are willing to pay £x in total, and his fee is artificially low at ~£20m (or whatever it's going to be) because of clause... so therefore he can easily argue he should get £x - £20m.

You seem to be assuming that players care at all about how much they or anyone else costs. They don't. They don't see anything in their account other than what they are paid. He can argue all he wants that the club has only paid x million for him so he should get the excess but players will look at the guys around them and say "how much is he on compared to me".

You tend to increase a players salary throughout his career up to a point so starting him off on £250,000 / week is dangerous and will annoy plenty of others in the squad. Like I say, its really not that simple. Clubs have their concerns and players have their own. The two will not necessarily have the same things in mind.
 
I'm not questioning that he is in a better bargaining position, I'm questioning how much of a difference it makes. Telling all the other players on £150k that the reason Reus is on £250k is that he cost them very little in the grand scheme of things won't stop them from wanting a pay rise.

The club wants to spend as little as possible but if the effect of paying him x amount is likely to cost them more in the long term because other players want parity then they will consider that in the calculations as well.

All these things make a difference, I just don't think his lack of long term contract will make that big a difference to the wages he will get at his next club.
 
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