*January Transfer Window 2014/15 Season Rumours/Signings*
- Thread starter Robert1986
- Start date
I can't see Ronaldo coming back to the Premier League purely because playing for RM in La Liga he can rack up insane stats, it's in his own interest to stay there if he wants to knock Messi off his perch and I'm sure he doesn't need any more money.
Last edited:
He is the current best player in world football, he is already on a perch.
Soldato
- Joined
- 22 Mar 2007
- Posts
- 3,875
United would be absolutely mental to pay all that money to get Ronaldo back. With the current state of the squad I'd much rather the money was spent on getting in a couple of CBs and someone like Strootman, and signing Falcao on a permanent deal depending on how he does this season.
Ronaldo's game is heavily reliant on pace and power, and over the next couple of years he's going to start losing those, particularly the pace. That's why I've always said that Ronaldo will start to decline earlier than Messi, because he's more reliant on skills that start to go as you get older, whereas Messi has superior ball control, dribbling and passing, attributes that don't fade as much with age.
Ronaldo's game is heavily reliant on pace and power, and over the next couple of years he's going to start losing those, particularly the pace. That's why I've always said that Ronaldo will start to decline earlier than Messi, because he's more reliant on skills that start to go as you get older, whereas Messi has superior ball control, dribbling and passing, attributes that don't fade as much with age.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
lol, Messi has been carrying an injury for over a year that utterly destroyed how effective he was, it effected his acceleration badly and how much he ran. Without that explosive acceleration he was far far less able to pass players as he did when he dribbled. He has close ball control but a huge reason he gets past people is simply the acceleration he has, he'll slow down as he approaches someone then flick on the turbo and skip past a couple players.
Suggesting Messi's game is madness as the last 18 months have proven. He's finally over the injury, his acceleration is back to where it was and he's playing how he used to. The lack of acceleration entirely changed his game.
Ronaldo is a truly excellent passer and puts chance after chance on a plate for his team. He tends to use tricks rather than out right pace to pass people, pace helps for sure but his movement is second to none and his ability to change direction at high speed is pretty much unparalleled.
Losing acceleration or pace will effect almost every player out there and that will include Ronaldo and Messi, but both of those players will simply change their style. Talent and ability don't go out of the window when you aren't as fast any more.
If anything Ronaldo is the fitter player out of him and Messi. He's pretty much a genetic freak that maintains absolute dedication and has done for donkeys years. Messi has often put on a few pounds over summer and he was a midget and went through growth hormone treatment. He's effectively taller and stronger than genetically he was I guess you could say supposed to be. If I had to bet on which player would stay fitter longer and maintain their level to an older age it would be Ronaldo, not Messi.
If you look at athletes (boxers in particular) who maintain their weight and those who yoyo between close to peak fitness and less than peak, the yoyo guys almost always degrade sooner. It's not like he's Ricky Hatton or anything, he just has at times played a little heavier and has a fairly stocky/heavy build for his height.
Ronaldo has had a similar hamstring injury and while he took a hit in form it was no where near the hit Messi took in form.
Either way, people seem to miss the obvious. You DO NOT pay 80million for Ronaldo's on field ability, you pay 80million because of his commercial draw, same for any and all top players. A lot of the biggest fee's in football are often about synergistic advertising. You think it's a coincidence that Bale's personal sponsor was Adidas and a huge price move happened where he went to a top club who has Adidas as their sponsor?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...banned-wearing-adidas-boots-Nike-lawsuit.html
Just a story that highlights the lengths these guys go to when trying to get everyone on the same deals, which are worth 10's of millions a year.
Ronaldo is a huge commercial draw all over the world, it's not at all about purely his playing value, as such he's worth WAY more than some other players, in the same way Beckham was.
Notice rumours of Ronaldo going to Utd last year, with Nike in pole position for a £750mil 10 year sponsorship deal with Ronaldo being a Nike guy? Ronaldo move doesn't happen, Nike not interested? Di Maria is with Adidas though...surprise?
What if they say, get Ronaldo to join Utd and switch to Adidas and we'll increase our sponsorship by 10mil a year.
Suggesting Messi's game is madness as the last 18 months have proven. He's finally over the injury, his acceleration is back to where it was and he's playing how he used to. The lack of acceleration entirely changed his game.
Ronaldo is a truly excellent passer and puts chance after chance on a plate for his team. He tends to use tricks rather than out right pace to pass people, pace helps for sure but his movement is second to none and his ability to change direction at high speed is pretty much unparalleled.
Losing acceleration or pace will effect almost every player out there and that will include Ronaldo and Messi, but both of those players will simply change their style. Talent and ability don't go out of the window when you aren't as fast any more.
If anything Ronaldo is the fitter player out of him and Messi. He's pretty much a genetic freak that maintains absolute dedication and has done for donkeys years. Messi has often put on a few pounds over summer and he was a midget and went through growth hormone treatment. He's effectively taller and stronger than genetically he was I guess you could say supposed to be. If I had to bet on which player would stay fitter longer and maintain their level to an older age it would be Ronaldo, not Messi.
If you look at athletes (boxers in particular) who maintain their weight and those who yoyo between close to peak fitness and less than peak, the yoyo guys almost always degrade sooner. It's not like he's Ricky Hatton or anything, he just has at times played a little heavier and has a fairly stocky/heavy build for his height.
Ronaldo has had a similar hamstring injury and while he took a hit in form it was no where near the hit Messi took in form.
Either way, people seem to miss the obvious. You DO NOT pay 80million for Ronaldo's on field ability, you pay 80million because of his commercial draw, same for any and all top players. A lot of the biggest fee's in football are often about synergistic advertising. You think it's a coincidence that Bale's personal sponsor was Adidas and a huge price move happened where he went to a top club who has Adidas as their sponsor?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...banned-wearing-adidas-boots-Nike-lawsuit.html
Just a story that highlights the lengths these guys go to when trying to get everyone on the same deals, which are worth 10's of millions a year.
Ronaldo is a huge commercial draw all over the world, it's not at all about purely his playing value, as such he's worth WAY more than some other players, in the same way Beckham was.
Notice rumours of Ronaldo going to Utd last year, with Nike in pole position for a £750mil 10 year sponsorship deal with Ronaldo being a Nike guy? Ronaldo move doesn't happen, Nike not interested? Di Maria is with Adidas though...surprise?
What if they say, get Ronaldo to join Utd and switch to Adidas and we'll increase our sponsorship by 10mil a year.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 22 Mar 2007
- Posts
- 3,875
I don't think the last 18 months prove anything other than that Ronaldo and Messi are very, very close to each other:
http://messivsronaldo.net/
Messi has got more assists than Ronaldo in La Liga every year since Ronaldo moved to Spain, and Ronaldo only got more total assists one year due to Real and Ronaldo having an outstanding Champions League campaign. You might argue that Ronaldo's passing is just as good, but the assists stats suggest otherwise. The stats are even more impressing in light of Messi's injury struggles over the past year or so.
Your point about Messi's long-term fitness due to his weight is completely moot unless you have some proof that he's struggled with weight since being at Barca. The hormones he took were to aid growth and I've seen no suggestions that they've had any effect on his weight. Besides, Messi plays in a team that relies more on passing and possession domination where he's required to do less running, which will help his long-term fitness. It's no secret that the footballers who have the longest careers are those who are able adapt as they age.
Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a Messi vs Ronaldo battle. They're both fantastic players, undoubtedly the two best players in the world, and both will go down as all-time greats. What I was really trying to say is that spending £60 million plus wages on a player who will be 30 next summer is a bit nuts when we are so poor defensively. Ronaldo's value is only going to decline now that he's approaching 30, and although he might make plenty of money in shirt sales, there's no way it'll approach what we'd have to pay for him.
edit: according to most of the major papers, Real are actually looking to offload Ronaldo next summer due to his wage demands and his declining value:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ll--but-it-will-cost-united-140m-9756696.html
That just backs up what I'm saying about age catching up. Nobody is immune to it and I don't think I'd be happy about United trying to sign Messi at 30 either. It was pushing it to sign RVP for £24 million when he was 29, and it's questionable whether Falcao would be a sensible permanent purchase given his age. The combination of the transfer fee and wages we'd spend on Ronaldo would buy us several more suitable players and pay their wages.
http://messivsronaldo.net/
Messi has got more assists than Ronaldo in La Liga every year since Ronaldo moved to Spain, and Ronaldo only got more total assists one year due to Real and Ronaldo having an outstanding Champions League campaign. You might argue that Ronaldo's passing is just as good, but the assists stats suggest otherwise. The stats are even more impressing in light of Messi's injury struggles over the past year or so.
Your point about Messi's long-term fitness due to his weight is completely moot unless you have some proof that he's struggled with weight since being at Barca. The hormones he took were to aid growth and I've seen no suggestions that they've had any effect on his weight. Besides, Messi plays in a team that relies more on passing and possession domination where he's required to do less running, which will help his long-term fitness. It's no secret that the footballers who have the longest careers are those who are able adapt as they age.
Anyway, I don't want to turn this into a Messi vs Ronaldo battle. They're both fantastic players, undoubtedly the two best players in the world, and both will go down as all-time greats. What I was really trying to say is that spending £60 million plus wages on a player who will be 30 next summer is a bit nuts when we are so poor defensively. Ronaldo's value is only going to decline now that he's approaching 30, and although he might make plenty of money in shirt sales, there's no way it'll approach what we'd have to pay for him.
edit: according to most of the major papers, Real are actually looking to offload Ronaldo next summer due to his wage demands and his declining value:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ll--but-it-will-cost-united-140m-9756696.html
That just backs up what I'm saying about age catching up. Nobody is immune to it and I don't think I'd be happy about United trying to sign Messi at 30 either. It was pushing it to sign RVP for £24 million when he was 29, and it's questionable whether Falcao would be a sensible permanent purchase given his age. The combination of the transfer fee and wages we'd spend on Ronaldo would buy us several more suitable players and pay their wages.
Last edited:
Madrid have done some insanely good business lately.Insane amount of money considering the defficiencies elsewhere in the team
Neville wasnt wrong when he estimated £100m+ still needs to be spent on the defence.
Once thats sorted then maybe look at Ronaldo, but I still cant see him paying back that kind of transfer cost on the field in the last few years of his top level career.
Soldato
- Joined
- 28 Jan 2008
- Posts
- 7,263
- Location
- Leeds
Silly money that feels like the tabloids are just being sensational to pull in readership. I doubt if it was to happen it would be anything like that for a 30 year old. Though I doubt it will happen anyways.
Speaking of crazy, read on BBC gossip Liverpool may make £40 million bid for Benzema, this has to be completely fabricated, because he's worth about 10p based on his performances for Real, this would be Andy Carroll all over again.
Speaking of crazy, read on BBC gossip Liverpool may make £40 million bid for Benzema, this has to be completely fabricated, because he's worth about 10p based on his performances for Real, this would be Andy Carroll all over again.
But when paper stats are being compared (and it seems to be a popular thing nowadays) both now and 50 years from now, playing in the Premier League is a huge hinderance compared to La Liga, playing for the current United side would be an even bigger hinderance. It's not in Ronaldo's personal interest to join a team which is struggling in a league that is more difficult, when he can stay in a team that is dominant in a league where he can score for fun week in week out. Not to mention United may not qualify for the Champions League again.
IMO United are just dreaming and all they're doing is helping him get a better contract come renewal time.
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 29 Jul 2004
- Posts
- 7,136
Or back in reality, the papers are making the whole saga up. I know you must be disapointed.
And there are just as many saying its too expensive for a 30 year old (which he will be by next summer). £60m transfer plus £20m/season, so at least £120m if not more.
Its bad enough Di Maria being bought instead of a defence (or certainly before), if Utd board agree a £120m+ transfer for Ronaldo before paying at least £50m into two quality centre halfs (and it could be argued at least £40-50m on a box to box /defensive midfielder like Vidal /Strootman as well) they are completely nuts.
That's without the possible /probable cost ~£45m for Falcao as well to be paid out at the same time
Its bad enough Di Maria being bought instead of a defence (or certainly before), if Utd board agree a £120m+ transfer for Ronaldo before paying at least £50m into two quality centre halfs (and it could be argued at least £40-50m on a box to box /defensive midfielder like Vidal /Strootman as well) they are completely nuts.
That's without the possible /probable cost ~£45m for Falcao as well to be paid out at the same time
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
It's bad they bought Di Maria, currently your best and most important player for the season before buying defenders, even though they bought both Rojo and Shaw first, so they actually spent what 46mil or so on defenders first. They also have 3 "first team" CB's at the club, just with terrible injury records. With Rojo/Shaw now fit if they happened to play every league game from now there would be one CB spot spare and at least 3 players to rotate between it. When Shaw/Rojo hadn't yet played they were relying on multiple sicknotes instead of just one a game.
I'd have loved, seriously loved to see Utd buy Hummels and whoever the hell else frankly, not bought Di Maria and been stuck playing Valencia or Young wide.... I'm 100% certain the team would be worse and you and other fans would be less happy with two expensive CB's and playing Young or Valencia instead.
There is constant jibes from non Utd fans at the defence and how crap they are, because most fans are stupid(I'm talking about the press more than people on here though there are a few), but you'd think a Utd fan would actually be aware they bought two defenders rather than following the media line that they hadn't. You'd also think a Utd fan was aware that Jones and Smalling are pretty decent defenders but have been injured, along with Rafael who has brought a complete turn around in quality at right back defensively and offensively since he came back from injury.
Di Maria and Falcao were players who were available when they were because of internal politics at the club, other CB's aren't available because..... their clubs weren't looking to offload them. You bought Falcao(effectively anyway) and Di Maria because the opportunity presented itself and the club didn't utterly stupidly turn them down. If not Utd they'd have moved elsewhere and would not have been available come next summer. Not every team has an owner going through a divorce or wants to spend 80mil on a single player ever summer to make some weird point. Hummels wasn't available, by all accounts Utd asked if he was and were told no.
Refusing to buy players who are available who will massively improve the team because you haven't yet bought players who aren't and won't be available yet........ wow, that is an impressively short sighted tactic and I'm surprised you would actively turn down great players you actually need for absolutely no reason at all.
I'd have loved, seriously loved to see Utd buy Hummels and whoever the hell else frankly, not bought Di Maria and been stuck playing Valencia or Young wide.... I'm 100% certain the team would be worse and you and other fans would be less happy with two expensive CB's and playing Young or Valencia instead.
There is constant jibes from non Utd fans at the defence and how crap they are, because most fans are stupid(I'm talking about the press more than people on here though there are a few), but you'd think a Utd fan would actually be aware they bought two defenders rather than following the media line that they hadn't. You'd also think a Utd fan was aware that Jones and Smalling are pretty decent defenders but have been injured, along with Rafael who has brought a complete turn around in quality at right back defensively and offensively since he came back from injury.
Di Maria and Falcao were players who were available when they were because of internal politics at the club, other CB's aren't available because..... their clubs weren't looking to offload them. You bought Falcao(effectively anyway) and Di Maria because the opportunity presented itself and the club didn't utterly stupidly turn them down. If not Utd they'd have moved elsewhere and would not have been available come next summer. Not every team has an owner going through a divorce or wants to spend 80mil on a single player ever summer to make some weird point. Hummels wasn't available, by all accounts Utd asked if he was and were told no.
Refusing to buy players who are available who will massively improve the team because you haven't yet bought players who aren't and won't be available yet........ wow, that is an impressively short sighted tactic and I'm surprised you would actively turn down great players you actually need for absolutely no reason at all.
Everyone knows United bought two defenders. 'United didn't strengthen in defence' is short-hand for 'United didn't strengthen in central defence' - Rojo and Shaw both being (primarily) left-backs replacing Evra and Buttner.
This whole thing about how United should have bought some CBs started when they were still playing 5-3-2. Seems to me that three 'first-team' CBs - whoever they are - isn't enough if you're playing 4-4-2, let alone with three at the back. And "just" with terrible injury records? Can you honestly say you wouldn't complain if Wenger left your team with three injury-prone centre-backs, regardless of who else he bought, just hoping they'd stay fit? Not to mention how rubbish United's 'first team' defenders and their young back-ups had been.
There was time and resources for United to bring in both Di Maria and one or two good defenders. It's great that they got the former, stupid that they failed to get the latter. There was no trade-off - except, perhaps, on deadline day when they spent hours working out a deal for Falcao instead of trying to get a CB, which is what most fans were expecting.
In no particular order, some CBs who were available (on account of them actually completing transfers) and would have improved United's defence (to varying degrees):
Aymen Abdennour
Bruno Martins Indi
Ezequiel Garay
Dejan Lovren
Thomas Vermaelen
Kostas Manolas
Stefan De Vrij
Adil Rami
Mehdi Benatia
Kyriakos Papadoupolos
This whole thing about how United should have bought some CBs started when they were still playing 5-3-2. Seems to me that three 'first-team' CBs - whoever they are - isn't enough if you're playing 4-4-2, let alone with three at the back. And "just" with terrible injury records? Can you honestly say you wouldn't complain if Wenger left your team with three injury-prone centre-backs, regardless of who else he bought, just hoping they'd stay fit? Not to mention how rubbish United's 'first team' defenders and their young back-ups had been.
There was time and resources for United to bring in both Di Maria and one or two good defenders. It's great that they got the former, stupid that they failed to get the latter. There was no trade-off - except, perhaps, on deadline day when they spent hours working out a deal for Falcao instead of trying to get a CB, which is what most fans were expecting.
In no particular order, some CBs who were available (on account of them actually completing transfers) and would have improved United's defence (to varying degrees):
Aymen Abdennour
Bruno Martins Indi
Ezequiel Garay
Dejan Lovren
Thomas Vermaelen
Kostas Manolas
Stefan De Vrij
Adil Rami
Mehdi Benatia
Kyriakos Papadoupolos
Last edited:
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 37,804
- Location
- block 16, cell 12
Yes we need a top centre back because johnny Evans is just cack at the best of times and he's like our number 1 cb. However no utd fan can now quibble di maria signing too much because even unfit and a bit injured he's our best player.
There's questions to be asked about a falcao move though.
There's questions to be asked about a falcao move though.
- Joined
- 17 Apr 2007
- Posts
- 23,162
- Location
- stat city
WesleyONagainandagainandagainandagain.
For free, sure. .. but then thats another aging player joining the attack. He would be good for a few seasons at best.
40m for a CB is pretty hard to say no to even if he is Hummels.
Klaas in the PL would be fantastic. Such an underrated striker. Shame he is getting on now though.
For free, sure. .. but then thats another aging player joining the attack. He would be good for a few seasons at best.
40m for a CB is pretty hard to say no to even if he is Hummels.
Klaas in the PL would be fantastic. Such an underrated striker. Shame he is getting on now though.
Last edited:
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
Metro is the most bull**** paper of them all. Sneijder wouldn't be good for a few seasons, he's crap. He takes ridiculous numbers of freekicks and shots and rarely scores, offers little else, fouls quite a lot, is selfish and no where near as good as he thinks he is. He's struggling to make his mark in a crap league, he's struggled to be consistent in Italy, Spain and now Turkey and was poor for Holland in the world cup. Utd would be mad to sign him and they won't.
Sneijder is dutch, so crap journalists will link him to a dutch manager who has used him before, same way LVG has been linked to each and every member of the dutch squad or anyone he's ever managed before.
Sneijder is dutch, so crap journalists will link him to a dutch manager who has used him before, same way LVG has been linked to each and every member of the dutch squad or anyone he's ever managed before.