Seeing this effort to troll makes me appreciate some of our resident trolls a little bit more, at least they have some form of imagination with a sprinkling of effort, this is just lazy.
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Junior doctor strike: Union's pay demands unrealistic, says Steve Barclay
- Thread starter Mrwong
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- doctor doctor strike
Permabanned
Well I wouldn’t be getting a payrise if I became a junior doctor which is very sad as they do a more important job than me.Train for many years and saddle yourself with a massive debt to become a doctor on £30k
Caporegime
Night 2, too old for this.....
Soldato
Take the 35% demand away and get back to the negotiating table. You must know 35% is plain unreasonable and unworkable.
Commissario
They might be willing to do that if our wonderful and trustworthy government took away their suggestion that 2% is enough.
Also IIRC the Doctors have said repeatedly they're willing to talk, the problem is the government aren't.
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Caporegime
Who is this aimed at? If it's at me I'm neither a junior doctor or negotiating anything.
The JDs have made it clear that 35% is not a demand or a precondition, just their opening position that they want recognising in much the same way the Welsh JDs did earlier this year. Don't buy the Government spin.
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Soldato
Will there come apoint where consultants just say 'no' and stop cover?
I’d imagine moral obligation means that won’t happen.
Caporegime
Yup potentially but most of us feel it is our duty to do this and want to support our colleagues.
In some ways however us supporting so willingly means the Government aren't forced to act.
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Soldato
I honestly think you’d be happier in the US. I don’t think social democracy is for you.
Caporegime
Not everyone feels this way but currently the vast majority are happy to provide cover. Its financial unsustainable for the NHS to continue doing this so the JDs will likely win this quite quickly.
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Soldato
Surely they're not getting paid anything to strike. I just don't see the unrealistic demand as achieving anything. Better that it's removed and at least get some talks taking place.
They did know what the pay was like before choosing to train for it so making references to the early 00's is rather unhelpful.
No one is getting 35% pay rises so to start the bidding at that level is a loaded situation that the other side can't sit down and discuss. It's not negotiating in good faith.
Soldato
This is not increasing efficiency, there is no actual limit to that, you are simply thinking the reverse of taxation and jumping to cutting staffing or salary etc. No, you increase output per person through technology or methodology.
I said taxation overall, individual, or coporporation does not matter. There is no choice about it here, its very simple, if taxes go up, you'll have less net. Meaning less investment. Rich people spending money is not investment.
Soldato
It must look like I’m picking on you. I’m not. Do you want happy doctors or no doctors because they’ve all gone to AUS?
This is not really true. Are you counting bonuses in that? What percentage increase did you get this year?
I don’t think you can say the government are acting in good faith (certainly since the Cameron “big society” trope, i.e. foodbanks).
I’d be fascinated to know what it is you do….only fair….I’m looking after your private pension and ensuring it’s invested with a slant to ESG and not planet killing profit. Despite your Brexit hurdles you insist putting in front of me.
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You think at 16 or so when they started to decide on their career and we’re choosing their A levels to get into medicine, a minimum of 8 years ago for the very most junior they were looking at starting salary or really understood the job? Don’t make me laugh.
It’s like the lazy arguments around “if you don’t like it then get another job”. This is a career not your first pay check type of role, but the sad fact is many of them will be looking at either another career or moving abroad. I see it all the time from juniors, and a worrying number have followed through from staff room chats I’ve had over the last few years.
The biggest single stress in my working life is not having enough doctor staff and the impact that has on both my team and patient care, but there simply aren’t enough coming through and the drop out is frightening now.
The government need to step up and genuinely start meaningful talks, as not doing so has real ongoing risks that won’t even take that many years to come to fruition these days, the the ill feeling is so strong.
Clearly 35 is an opening position. Nobody is going to expect the government to say ok 35 it is then. Get down and talk and make something sensible. The government dicking about saying we won’t talk until you stop saying 35 is pointless. Just start some meaningful talks ffs
Soldato
I can imagine it’s very tough to be played by the government and have the very people (well some of them) who really need you just drink it up and spit it out back at you.
Most of the public sector have had basically nothing since 2008. Some people are taking the ****, especially those on big wages. Doctors and train drivers are far from poor.
MPs always seem to find the cash to give themselves a rise though, on their already inflated wages. Weird.
MPs always seem to find the cash to give themselves a rise though, on their already inflated wages. Weird.
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Soldato
Then remove it, you've as good as said it's a meaningless figure so stop dicking around with pointless threats of strikes. I think you'd get more support showing compromise than demanding the government to come to the table. It would achieve more than these strikes will.
Soldato
Fair enough if you think that on balance, it’s the doctors taking the mick not the government, otherwise that argument just falls apart.