Junior doctor strike: Union's pay demands unrealistic, says Steve Barclay

SpellowHouse said:
TBH I am getting sick of hearing that I need to compromise (as a patient) because I need to put the NHS first.

When the pandemic was on, all my GP's and consultants were very suspiciously missing.
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I suggest you join the picketing lines and support the junior doctors then. Otherwise more will go "suspiciously missing" as they move to greener pastures.
 
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NHS access structure needs to change if you want to have any NHS left.
Do away with transgender operations etc, those can be paid by the individual.

Do what some middle eastern countries do, no free access for none natives, ie place a surcharge or force those that visit the country to get insurance pretty much easily done by attached it to travel tickets.

You can't be to left if you want free NHS, if you are and still don't want to do the above then you can not complain when it falls apart or disappears.

Pretty much woke etc are to blame, as we can't spread limited resources to everyone or every type none medical emergency.

Sometimes you need to be hard and selfish for the greater good, something most people in this country forget about.
 
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Mrwong said:
NHS access structure needs to change if you want to have any NHS left.
Do away with transgender operations etc, those can be paid by the individual.

Do what some middle eastern countries do, no free access for none natives, ie place a surcharge or force those that visit the country to get insurance pretty much easily done by attached it to travel tickets.

You can't be to left if you want free NHS, if you are and still don't want to do the above then you can not complain when it falls apart or disappears.

Pretty much woke etc are to blame, as we can't spread limited resources to everyone or every type none medical emergency.

Sometimes you need to be hard and selfish for the greater good, something most people in this country forget about.
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The amount of money spent on operations related to trans people is minuscule and foreign nationals can't just come over here and get free health care. You will get basic things like A&E but you can't come over here for a heart bypass etc.

The issue with the NHS is underfunding. Awful structure that should have been updated/changed years ago. The massive rise is costs associated with delivering modern healthcare. The massive rise in poor health in the population. The rise in life expectency.

I would wager that trans operations and people from abroad using the NHS probably accounts for about 0.1% of budget. Perhaps less.
 
www.dailymail.co.uk

EXCLUSIVE: Tourists from 155 nations have cost the NHS £219million

MPs have called for an end to the NHS being treated as an 'International Health Service'. Visitors from Nigeria ran up the biggest debts for health treatments, owing £6.1million.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

February 2023


EXCLUSIVE: Health tourists from 155 countries have run up £219million of unpaid NHS bills as Brits face huge waiting lists and must battle to see their own GP​

  • Visitors from Nigeria ran up the biggest NHS debts, owing £6.1million
  • The highest bills are for maternity services followed by obstetrics care
  • It comes as the health service grapples with huge waiting lists and strikes
Unpaid bills run up by 'health tourists' have cost the NHS £219million, a Mail investigation reveals today.

Patients from 155 different countries have had maternity care, cancer treatment and heart surgery courtesy of UK taxpayers.

And they owe £138million to 98 health trusts with a further £80million written off over the past two years.
 
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Maternity and obstetrics care is a huge one, nothing like a bit of identity fraud at 2am in the morning being the cause of all your worry. Patient A claiming to be patient B, in order to get free care. Fantastic when a major haemorrhage protocol is activated and the current blood group doesn't match the historic.
 
fez said:
The amount of money spent on operations related to trans people is minuscule and foreign nationals can't just come over here and get free health care. You will get basic things like A&E but you can't come over here for a heart bypass etc.

The issue with the NHS is underfunding. Awful structure that should have been updated/changed years ago. The massive rise is costs associated with delivering modern healthcare. The massive rise in poor health in the population. The rise in life expectency.

I would wager that trans operations and people from abroad using the NHS probably accounts for about 0.1% of budget. Perhaps less.
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Sorry that is total utter rubbish. like Tescos says " Every little bit helps".

We British are being asset stripped by the whole pyramid scheme from foreign [countries, corporations right down to the individual]. We British are the laughing stock of the entire world.
 
Chris Wilson said:
.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11737185/Health-tourists-155-countries-run-219million-unpaid-NHS-bills.html


EXCLUSIVE: Health tourists from 155 countries have run up £219million of unpaid NHS bills as Brits face huge waiting lists and must battle to see their own GP​

  • Visitors from Nigeria ran up the biggest NHS debts, owing £6.1million
  • The highest bills are for maternity services followed by obstetrics care
  • It comes as the health service grapples with huge waiting lists and strikes
Unpaid bills run up by 'health tourists' have cost the NHS £219million, a Mail investigation reveals today.

Patients from 155 different countries have had maternity care, cancer treatment and heart surgery courtesy of UK taxpayers.

And they owe £138million to 98 health trusts with a further £80million written off over the past two years.
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Is that total or is that just last year? Just as a comparison, the budget for the NHS is about £150bn a year so even if that £219m was a single year (which I doubt), that would represent about 0.15% of the budget.

This is the problem. This is how Brexit happens. People who are told to look at something absolutely tiny as the source of our issues instead of the big ticket items. We then spend massive time and resources to "fix" that problem and are shocked that the actual issue hasn't magically gone away.

There is only so much you can do to stop people coming from abroad and using the NHS for some things unless you want to watch people die. Someone comes over heavily pregnant and goes into labour, what do you do? Sorry love, no insurance so you and your babies can die. Its just not as simple as people make out to fix and would cost us too much.
 
fez said:
There is only so much you can do to stop people coming from abroad and using the NHS for some things unless you want to watch people die. Someone comes over heavily pregnant and goes into labour, what do you do? Sorry love, no insurance so you and your babies can die. Its just not as simple as people make out to fix and would cost us too much.
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Yes that is what you do if they do not have insurance. We even do it to our own, NHS post code lottery.
 
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Mrwong said:
Sorry that is total utter rubbish. like Tescos says " Every little bit helps".

We British are being asset stripped by the whole pyramid scheme from foreign [countries, corporations right down to the individual]. We British are the laughing stock of the entire world.
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We're the laughing stock of the world because we haven't changed with the times and keep repeatedly shooting ourselves in the foot.

We are a laughing stock because we privatised all our rails and now they subsidise rail travel in countries in Europe.

We are a laughing stock because we left the EU and as a result have one of the worst economic growth forecasts in the G20 nations (Russia are worse to be fair, yay).

We are a laughing stock because we keep electing the same idiots to run the country despite them making mistake after massive mistake.

As to "every little helps", no it doesn't unless it actually delivers value for money. If it costs you £30m/year to run a system to try and stop people using the UK for its healthcare and it saves you £25m its pointless.

As I said above, its completely untenable to deny everyone healthcare without insurance unless you want to watch people and their children die.
 
The aviation industry knew certain flights from Africa were a high percentage of heavily pregnant women coming to the UK to give birth in our NHS facilities, they even had a fun name for these flights which I forget. They were coming in solely to defraud the NHS and the NHS watched and allowed it to happen. Not the doctor's money being wasted, was it? Bit diferent when it IS the doctor's money being in question. STRIKE! STRIKE!

If I go and see a consultant privately his secretary has my card details before he even lays a stethoscope upon me. NO WAY do I get out without paying. Yet 155 different countries have had criminal patients abscond without paying due to sheer negligence by the NHS.

And yes, you simply don't treat them. Unless you are happy it will never end and for NHS funding to be used ad infinitum by devious criminals?
 
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Buddy said:
Around 75k for Full time salaried. However, two important things :

Full time is traditionally 37.5 hours. I would say depending on workload most end up doing 40 - 48 hours a week.

The other factor - GP practice income has barely moved over the years. About 1% a year. Meaning, everything comes out of partner income as they can't keep up with inflation. For most GPs this means they tend not to salary , prefer locum and pick and choose what they do.

As a result there's been a massive partner exodus. Single handed practices have been collapsing across the country. Hell, even private firms who hand select the easiest patients cannot make it work :

www.telegraph.co.uk

Babylon Health virtual GP app faces cash crunch

Start-up championed by Matt Hancock could have as little as three months worth of cash in the bank
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
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My local GP practice (25k patients) has just handed itself back to the NHS.
 
fez said:
We're the laughing stock of the world because we haven't changed with the times and keep repeatedly shooting ourselves in the foot.

We are a laughing stock because we privatised all our rails and now they subsidise rail travel in countries in Europe.

We are a laughing stock because we left the EU and as a result have one of the worst economic growth forecasts in the G20 nations (Russia are worse to be fair, yay).

We are a laughing stock because we keep electing the same idiots to run the country despite them making mistake after massive mistake.

As to "every little helps", no it doesn't unless it actually delivers value for money. If it costs you £30m/year to run a system to try and stop people using the UK for its healthcare and it saves you £25m its pointless.

As I said above, its completely untenable to deny everyone healthcare without insurance unless you want to watch people and their children die.
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You are in serious denial about how it all works in this country compared to other countries, with your attitude we are all doomed.

What is better 1) Everyone suffers ,or 2) those that are not British suffer.
You need to choose.
If you choose the 1 ( to eliminate everyone suffers) then please do not complain about the poor performance of the NHS etc... Just pay up and pay more in taxes and do not complain.
 
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Jokester said:
My local GP practice (25k patients) has just handed itself back to the NHS.
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We've had 3 local practices go under.

One of our own partners took an early retirement- had enough.

Another stepped down to a salaried role. Didn't want the liability anymore.
 
Chris Wilson said:
www.dailymail.co.uk

EXCLUSIVE: Tourists from 155 nations have cost the NHS £219million

MPs have called for an end to the NHS being treated as an 'International Health Service'. Visitors from Nigeria ran up the biggest debts for health treatments, owing £6.1million.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

February 2023


EXCLUSIVE: Health tourists from 155 countries have run up £219million of unpaid NHS bills as Brits face huge waiting lists and must battle to see their own GP​

  • Visitors from Nigeria ran up the biggest NHS debts, owing £6.1million
  • The highest bills are for maternity services followed by obstetrics care
  • It comes as the health service grapples with huge waiting lists and strikes
Unpaid bills run up by 'health tourists' have cost the NHS £219million, a Mail investigation reveals today.

Patients from 155 different countries have had maternity care, cancer treatment and heart surgery courtesy of UK taxpayers.

And they owe £138million to 98 health trusts with a further £80million written off over the past two years.
Click to expand...
Given up on the lazy GPs (you went very quiet when presented with facts) and onto immigrants. Didn't someone predict that you'd do this earlier in the thread?
 
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No, I replied and stated the data didn't show numerically how many face to face appointments GP's had post and pre covid. The data showed a percentage of appointments seen face to face. 70% of 100 is very different to 70% of 50,000...

The irony of not letting health tourist patients die over a lack of their willingness to fund their treatment as junior doctors elect to go on a long strike over their own wage levels, inevitably risking patients lives, is strong...
 
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