Junior doctor strike: Union's pay demands unrealistic, says Steve Barclay

neocon said:
They want a 35% pay rise.

Is that true?
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They've had a 35% real times cut over a decade. This is their opening position for pay negotiations but it's not a precondition like the Gov are spinning. The Welsh JDs wanted recognition of this too in their pay negotiations recently.
 
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Minstadave said:
They've had a 35% real times cut over a decade. This is their opening position for pay negotiations but it's not a precondition like the Gov are spinning.
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Why don't these subjugated and undervalued just bog off to those green fields and streets paved with gold they claim are awaiting them with open arms? :) It must be purgatory battling it needlessly out over here...
 
Mrwong said:
If you think it is incorrect then correct me.
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I did. However, if you want to understand why it's incorrect then I'll explain, you don't have to have a consultant post to reach consultant level. You complete training via CCT or CESR, then you are consultant level, this doesn't require anyone to retire or there to be a post available. You can take up a consultant post at that point (or slightly earlier), a clinical fellow post, locum, do whatever you fancy really. On top of that it is very easy to find a consultant post in most specialities currently (there will always be a few where it is harder, but finding a post is not difficult at the moment).
 
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Minstadave said:
I did. However, if you want to understand why it's incorrect then I'll explain, you don't have to have a post to reach consultant level. You complete training via CCT or CESR, then you are consultant level, this doesn't require anyone to retire or there to be a post available. You can take up a consultant post at that point (or slightly earlier), a clinical fellow post or locum. On top of that it is very easy to find a consultant post in most specialities currently (there will always be a few where it is harder, but finding a post is not difficult at the moment).
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The capable and desirous juniors are but a moment in life away from being a consultant then. How much are they then on? Just for their NHS time, not for the private consultancy they also do in theri (imagined) free time? Often on NHS funded premises.
 
Chris Wilson said:
The capable and desirous juniors are but a moment in life away from being a consultant then. How much are they then on? Just for their NHS time, not for the private consultancy they also do in theri (imagined) free time? Often on NHS funded premises.
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You can look up consultant pay, it's public domain. Just like those figures on face to face appointments were that you claimed were being held back in a big conspiracy.
 
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Chris Wilson said:
The capable and desirous juniors are but a moment in life away from being a consultant then. How much are they then on? Just for their NHS time, not for the private consultancy they also do in theri (imagined) free time? Often on NHS funded premises.
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....
 
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Minstadave said:
I did. However, if you want to understand why it's incorrect then I'll explain, you don't have to have a consultant post to reach consultant level. You complete training via CCT or CESR, then you are consultant level, this doesn't require anyone to retire or there to be a post available. You can take up a consultant post at that point (or slightly earlier), a clinical fellow post, locum, do whatever you fancy really. On top of that it is very easy to find a consultant post in most specialities currently (there will always be a few where it is harder, but finding a post is not difficult at the moment).
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To reach the most senior position you need for someone to retire, those at the top work part time on the NHS and part time private, taking up the spaces, which annoys others that are just below waiting to fill their position. They don't expand the top positions.
 
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Mrwong said:
To reach the most senior position you need for someone to retire, those at the top work part time on the NHS and part time private, taking up the spaces, which annoys others that are just below waiting to fill their position. They don't expand the top positions.
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You have great experience of being an NHS consultant I see :cry:
 
Mrwong said:
To reach the most senior position you need for someone to retire, those at the top work part time on the NHS and part time private, taking up the spaces, which annoys others that are just below waiting to fill their position. They don't expand the top positions.
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Did you hear most of that from King Charles?

What a silly argument. Of course there are only a few jobs at the very top thats how everything works.
 
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