"Just stop oil"

dowie said:
We're living in a democracy, not a dictatorship, if they want to choose this self-indulgent path where they get to LARP as heroes who are bravely fighting their imaginary fight by just being a complete pest to the rest of society then they're going to have to accept the consequences of their actions.
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Yes, it is a democracy. Hence, people have the right to peacefully protest about issues that other people might dismiss as rubbish. Obviously, there are limits on peaceful protesting though.

Imaginary fight? Do you not accept that GHG emissions from extracting/burning fossil fuels are responsible for global warming then?

dowie said:
Sadly they don't seem to be prepared to admit that they're wilfully breaking the law for a righteous cause even, in fact, they tried to weasel out of it and attempt some sort of jury nullification thing and it backfired thus the sentences:
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Well, when engaged in a campaign of civil disobedience the ultimate objective is to "live to fight another day" not allow oneself to be silently led away to prison.

After all, if you are in prison you cannot do anything to raise awareness for the cause. If you can convince a jury that you shouldn't be punished then that will result in more useful publicity for your campaign too.
 
Maple Leaf said:
Yes, it is a democracy. Hence, people have the right to peacefully protest about issues that other people might dismiss as rubbish. Obviously, there are limits on peaceful protesting though.

Imaginary fight? Do you not accept that GHG emissions from extracting/burning fossil fuels are responsible for global warming then?



Well, when engaged in a campaign of civil disobedience the ultimate objective is to "live to fight another day" not allow oneself to be silently led away to prison.

After all, if you are in prison you cannot do anything to raise awareness for the cause. If you can convince a jury that you shouldn't be punished then that will result in more useful publicity for your campaign too.
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Your signature quote from Bertrand Russell seems particularly apt relating to JSO.
 
Maple Leaf said:
Yes, it is a democracy. Hence, people have the right to peacefully protest about issues that other people might dismiss as rubbish. Obviously, there are limits on peaceful protesting though.
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Yup one obvious limit is don't block motorways or break into airports as just claiming you're "peaceful" doesn't negate the impact of it thus these sentences.

Maple Leaf said:
Imaginary fight? Do you not accept that GHG emissions from extracting/burning fossil fuels are responsible for global warming then?
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No my objection was their narrow goal/policy but the new government has adopted that policy anyway so further protests from the group seem rather silly.

Maple Leaf said:
Well, when engaged in a campaign of civil disobedience the ultimate objective is to "live to fight another day" not allow oneself to be silently led away to prison.

After all, if you are in prison you cannot do anything to raise awareness for the cause. If you can convince a jury that you shouldn't be punished then that will result in more useful publicity for your campaign too.
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But that's an obvious gamble they chose to take and it didn't work, thus it's silly to have a big moan about how extreme the sentences were, the other approach could have been a guilty plea and a statement about it all being something they see as a necessary act etc. which as the lawyer points out courts have often shown leniency towards.

Check out this guy's own description of his antics in court:

 
I guess the difference between breaking into an airport versus walking into a motorway is that you can’t break into an airport without causing criminal damage. The only realistic was through the perimeter fence is to cut it.

If you are causing criminal damage, I agree it isn’t a peaceful protest.

There are also a bunch of other airport specific laws which you’d break relating to airside security. You’d expect to be dealt with accordingly.
 
I would also argue that disrupting the passage of thousands of people, and all the knock-on issues by protesting on a motorway is also NOT a peaceful protest.

Glad they got the sentances they did - none of them seem the sort of people who will settle easily into prison life, although the current Govt will probably let them out in a few weeks anyway.
 
Dirk Diggler said:
I wouldn't dispute a word of that, and I have absolutely no time for their methods even if I do agree with the sentiment, but the 4 & 5 year sentences are OTT. No wonder prisons are in crisis; we need to modernise the justice system and find better punitive methods.
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Just coming back to this... we need to find better methods handwaving from people who are all [Pikachu face.jpg] about this sentence:

She had three previous convictions, a suspended sentence and breached her conditional discharge - these people are fanatics, the alternative methods to prison were already tried to no avail:
 
dowie said:
No my objection was their narrow goal/policy but the new government has adopted that policy anyway so further protests from the group seem rather silly.
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The new government has decided not to grant any more new licenses for new oil/gas exploration/exploitation in the North Sea, Irish Sea and East Atlantic. However, the new licenses recently granted by the last Conservative government (where work has not even begun yet) will still go ahead. The government will not revoke recently granted new oil and gas licences for new fields and will manage those new fields for the entirety of their lifespan. Sunak was granting new licenses right up to dissolving Parliament before the general election.
 
dowie said:
She had three previous convictions, a suspended sentence and breached her conditional discharge - these people are fanatics, the alternative methods to prison were already tried to no avail:
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At this point she'll be flung around like a dog toy in prison.
It may sound harsh me saying it, but she's had more than enough warnings as to what is coming and has ignored every single one of them.
Maybe, just maybe she'll learn that actions have consequences, and maybe this time it'll sink in.
But I very much doubt it.
 
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Maple Leaf said:
The new government has decided not to grant any more new licenses for new oil/gas exploration/exploitation in the North Sea, Irish Sea and East Atlantic. However, the new licenses recently granted by the last Conservative government (where work has not even begun yet) will still go ahead. The government will not revoke recently granted new oil and gas licences for new fields and will manage those new fields for the entirety of their lifespan. Sunak was granting new licenses right up to dissolving Parliament before the general election.
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So basically a tiny rounding error in the grand scheme of things, no need for fanatics to get so irate about to the point where they're risking jail over disruption to motorways, airports etc..
 
Maple Leaf said:
The new government has decided not to grant any more new licenses for new oil/gas exploration/exploitation in the North Sea, Irish Sea and East Atlantic. However, the new licenses recently granted by the last Conservative government (where work has not even begun yet) will still go ahead. The government will not revoke recently granted new oil and gas licences for new fields and will manage those new fields for the entirety of their lifespan. Sunak was granting new licenses right up to dissolving Parliament before the general election.
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There has to be a transition and it will be a decade or two until oil and gas are no longer piped and pumped, at the very least. During that decade or two the companies and personnel will be retrained to perform different duties still in heavy engineering in a marine environment but with a greener aspect.
It is to be hoped that the latest leases will provide enough lead time so that the high earning oilfield workers are not put on a scrapheap or reduced to minimum wage type jobs.
 
JonRGV250 said:
At this point she'll be flung around like a dog toy in prison.
It may sound harsh me saying it, but she's had more than enough warnings as to what is coming and has ignored every single one of them.
Maybe, just maybe she'll learn that actions have consequences, and maybe this time it'll sink in.
But I very much doubt it.
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I honestly think they believe they won't be jailed when they go to court. A rude awakening that actions have consequences.
 
Well if it causes some of them to reevaluate their choices then it's good not just because it keeps those 5 fanatics from doing anything silly but also acts as a bit of a deterrent for some of the rest... they can go back to blocking minor roads in London and getting moved on by the police or spraying orange paint on stuff or whatever.
 
CREATIVE!11 said:
People just want an excuse to grab their pitchforks.
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Maybe it was there strategy from the off to become unpopular with the general public provided they got there message across. The problem for them is their antics became the focus and the messaging became secondary.

I do reckon though while there in prison they will change their views on oil and it's many properties.
 
Don't really understand how judge could tell jurors not to vote on moral grounds despite the Colstom statue idiots being found innocent - how much was all that policing and economic loss in comparison;

Trumps drill baby drill phrase is quite catchy though
 
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