I've edited my post. The article is misleading as it states she was arrested at the side of the motorway.
"Just stop oil"
- Thread starter Diddums
- Start date
I've edited my post. The article is misleading as it states she was arrested at the side of the motorway.
Caporegime
I hope that seriously was sarcasm. How do you know the Police Bike was not in a lorry drivers blind spot and caused everything because like what I just said it is all speculation. Yes we have mirrors to see those blind spots but when you have 6 mirrors in your cab you cannot look at them simultaneously at once.
There mere fact that you cannot understand from this picture that a lorry has taken avoiding action from something that is unordinary to the M25. Also the unit on the left is RHD and the Unit on the right is LHD. A recipe for disaster if there is one. Whether the driver is at fault for "human error" is irrelevant. The route cause analysis is that the whole thing would have never happened if those protestors were not there. There is a reason you are advised to get the hell out of your car on a motorway when you break down because it is a dangerous place.
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Fair enough.
Arrested and detained for 5 hours whilst they checked her credentials despite her having a press card.
Soldato
The root cause here is human error either on the part of the truck driver or another driver if you use logic like yours you land up with silly situations like any crash involving an over seas driver is their fault as it wouldn't have happened if they weren't here etc etc as has been said repeatedly the drivers are responsible for managing distractions, leaving appropriate gaps etc etc etc so in the even they are distracted then accidents don't occur.I hope that seriously was sarcasm. How do you know the Police Bike was not in a lorry drivers blind spot and caused everything because like what I just said it is all speculation. Yes we have mirrors to see those blind spots but when you have 6 mirrors in your cab you cannot look at them simultaneously at once.
There mere fact that you cannot understand from this picture that a lorry has taken avoiding action from something that is unordinary to the M25. Also the unit on the left is RHD and the Unit on the right is LHD. A recipe for disaster if there is one. Whether the driver is at fault for "human error" is irrelevant. The route cause analysis is that the whole thing would have never happened if those protestors were not there. There is a reason you are advised to get the hell out of your car on a motorway when you break down because it is a dangerous place.
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There we go then. If there’s a distraction, it’s not the fault of the professional driver. It’s the distractions fault. That lorry driver doing 60mph who aquaplaned and took out a family in a micra in lane 3 wasn’t at fault because if the water wasn’t there it wouldn’t have happened.I hope that seriously was sarcasm. How do you know the Police Bike was not in a lorry drivers blind spot and caused everything because like what I just said it is all speculation. Yes we have mirrors to see those blind spots but when you have 6 mirrors in your cab you cannot look at them simultaneously at once.
There mere fact that you cannot understand from this picture that a lorry has taken avoiding action from something that is unordinary to the M25. Also the unit on the left is RHD and the Unit on the right is LHD. A recipe for disaster if there is one. Whether the driver is at fault for "human error" is irrelevant. The route cause analysis is that the whole thing would have never happened if those protestors were not there. There is a reason you are advised to get the hell out of your car on a motorway when you break down because it is a dangerous place.
That lorry driver who drove into the back of a broken down car wasn’t at fault because there was some mud on his windscreen. Wasn’t his fault, it was the fault there was mud.
That lorry driver who drove into the back of a school bus when he was changing the radio station wasn’t at fault because he doesn’t like ABBA and if ABBA didn’t exist he wouldn’t have had to change the radio.
That lorry driver who drove into the back of another lorry wasn’t at fault because he was distracted by his kid who he brought to work that day in the passenger seat. Not the drivers fault, if the kids mother hadn’t given birth it wouldn’t have happened.
Lorry driver who drives into a police motorbike during a slow moving rolling roadblock wasn’t at fault because he was distracted by the news that there may be protestors on a gantry above. No dangers in the road, just a danger for low flying swans. But not the drivers fault for eating a police motorbike despite clearly not paying attention.
glad we cleared that up!
Caporegime
The Lorry driver that had a blowout on a motorway and crashed into a car is his fault as well?
The Lorry driver that swerved to avoid a child running out in front but crashed into a car is his fault as well?
The Lorry driver that went into the back of car because he brake checked him whilst maintaining a decent gap in front is his fault as well?
I could also go on.
You can swing it both ways.
As long as you have a human behind the wheel of a truck there will still be accidents. It is called being a human and will not change until full automation is available. That's why organisations risk assess everything to reduce this likelihood as unfortunately in all walks of life accidents will happen when Humans are involved. Hence why the highway code has little snippets like this.
"Motorways. Pedestrians MUST NOT be on motorways or slip roads except in an emergency (see Rule 271 and Rule 275)." This is purely there to reduce the risk of accidents as allowing people to wander the motorways willy nilly will cause accidents.
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I think we need to understand that although the protesters may have as much meaning to some as mud on a windscreen it doesn't mean that the lorry driver should be to blame.
The protesters were clearly a factor in the accident and that's the point most fair minded people have a view of.
Did they really need to be there? Is a puddle just an unfortunate after effect of rain that is a very common sighting on British roads.
Permabanned
Soldato
Now we know why the police were standing around doing hardly anything. They are now wanting new powers to deal with protestors, despite the fact they didn't use many of their existing powers.
If the police get these new powers then JSO as been used as useful idiots, the example, to further take away our rights of protest.
If the police get these new powers then JSO as been used as useful idiots, the example, to further take away our rights of protest.
Caporegime
No the root cause is a distraction that led to this caused by the protestors and what could be done to prevent it from happening in the future. An example of this is why the highway code prohibits pedestrians from going on the motorway. I am IOSH trained and used to risk assess machinery for use in factory environments. Root cause analysis in the correct way is you cannot blame human error as a cause because it happens and is poor evaluation. If you used that theory there would be nothing to prevent that accident from happening again with another person's human error when using that machinery. That's why we risk assess and put failsafe's in place to prevent these things from happening in the first place. For example fail safe switches that prevent machinery from running when opened up for servicing as an example.
I had one instance when a person lost part of his thumb whilst cleaning a piece of equipment. You cannot just turn around and say it was his fault carry on. You look into what caused it to happen in the first place and put measures in place to prevent it from happening in the future.
Trucks have plenty of fantastic gadgets to help the driver like adaptive cruise control, lane warning systems and emergency braking systems but in their current form they are not fool proof or perfect. Humans are incapable full stop of being able to react to everything that is around them in a live situation. You concentrate on the most important ones.
You can even see in the photo the gantry above which might have even been where the protestors were on. The driver could have been focusing on them not doing something stupid and missed to check one of his mirrors then boom. A human doesn't have ten eyes to look at everything on the road at once.
If the driver was on his phone or otherwise distracted by drinking a cup of tea or talking to his missus on the phone then fair enough but it is not as cut and dry to simply just blame the driver.
Just to give you an example if I was investigating. The fault of the HGV driver is well down the list (Notice how I said fault as I am not denying the HGV driver isn't blameless). You go right back to the beginning. The gantries are able to be accessed by pedestrians and untrained personnel. What can we do to prevent this from happening in the future? Electrified fencing, locks on access ladders, construction of obstacles to prevent climbing of the gantries etc etc. This is all just hypothetical but in turn you prevent the protestors from climbing up the gantries, you prevent the police from attempting a rolling detour, you prevent the accident from happening in the first place.
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Man of Honour
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We need some old school policing. Take the protestors to a back room and beat the crap out of them.
Soldato
Isn't progress a wonder! 
Soldato
At least treat all protestors the same.
When its a protest considered right wing the police get their dogs out growling and barking in peoples faces. Or run their police horses against people, pushing past them.
Not offering protestors blankets and cups of tea.
Man of Honour
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The criminals and terrorists must be watching this rubbing their hands together in glee at how weak our police are. Thank goodness MI5/6 must do something before the police are needed.
Soldato
The UK seems to have an obsession with self flagellation.
We create, and allow, problems to arise to cause us problems in the future.
We create, and allow, problems to arise to cause us problems in the future.
I dunno what system they are using but some of the contractors we've been using recently have some kind of advanced system which gives a running voice commentary of directions and hazard warnings - it is kind of funny when they are manoeuvring into the service yard and it is going "take the next left, tight turn, caution collision hazard 10 feet left" or something like that. Also will give voice warnings like "warning motorbike blind spot", etc.
Caporegime
The new Mercedes we have can read road signs, adjust speed automatically, slow down and stop at roundabouts, accelerate when clear and even help steer. Unfortunately it is still very buggy and incredibly slow so most of us just turn it off but it is getting better and better slowly.
Soldato
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but what if it was a person who was at the side of the road spraying water deliberately on the motorway in anotherwise dry road
or a person standing on a bridge throwing mud at the windscreen?
yes a driver needs to be responsible for their vehicle and chances are they will get blamed for the accident...... but equally *some* blame should be put on the people who deliberately caused the holdup as well imo. people are not allowed to deliberately cause distractions or blocks on motorways. The fact that this keeps happening shows that the consequences for doing so are not enough.
Soldato
Whatever, I am sure this 'accident' would not have occurred without these retards causing the disruptions on the motorways. A hazardous place at the best of times, where pedestrians are forbidden.
Caporegime
Just Stop Oil return to the M25 AGAIN: Protester manages scales gantry
Met Commissioner Sir Mark Rowley defended the response to the environ-extremists who have shut Britain's busiest motorway for the third day running, declaring: 'We're going as quickly as we can.'
One witness told MailOnline: 'I was driving along at around 6.21am when a woman started climbing a gantry. A police officer on a motorbike swerved to try to stop her and collided with a lorry, which then crashed into another lorry. I stopped to check if the police officer was alright. They arrested the woman before she could get on to the gantry'.
Glad we cleared that up. Yes it is the mail and yes it is more than likely not 100% correct but don't be so quick to judge blame on lorry drivers.
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