"Just stop oil"

[adam cool dude]

Can you answer why? If the goal is just to stop new oil licensing in the UK then what does that achieve? People will still use oil and gas, we'll just import more of it.

Essentially why is importing it from Nigeria, Saudi, Iran etc.. better for the environment than exploration and extraction in the North Sea?

I think that is why the vast majority of the common sense population cannot get behind it because it is pointless just like the insulate Britain ones.

I personally think it is too late and uncontrollable especially around population control which is the key really to climate change but we cannot control that. These guys should be focusing their efforts on improving our flood defence than anything else.

 

[UberTiger]

Not necesarily

Public photography is not a crime in this country. It's a clear abuse of the freedom of the press that we're lucky to have in this country.

It's also ridiculous to compare reporters covering a protest to that of an active shooter. If you watch the video she does acknowledge that there are sometimes situations where reporters may have some responsibility to report certain things to the police, however they can't be relied upon to do the police's job for them and report everything.

 

[iamtheoneneo]

Arrests of stop oil journalists look controversial - at what point their presence is provocateur for protestors. if a protest happens and no one films it did it happen ?

Police don't get to decide what constitutes a 'good' protest. If they and this disgusting excuse for a government had their way there wouldn't be any...which funnily enough is exactly what they are currently trying to get past the house of lords.

 

[sidimmu]

If you dont know you shouldnt point it out as a fact which is what i was replying to but fair play by using the Daily Mail and their "trust me bro" source.

could moan at me for assuming if you want, but this is an area of road I know very well and it really does not take a genius to identify the risks these idiots cause to normal road users, regardless if they are class it as profession or not.

 

[Hagar]

Police don't get to decide what constitutes a 'good' protest. If they and this disgusting excuse for a government had their way there wouldn't be any...which funnily enough is exactly what they are currently trying to get past the house of lords.

The police do get to decide what constitutes a breakdown in public order. If a tiny percentage of opinion decides to cause discord and chaos, no matter how righteous their position, the police have a duty to public order and remove that discordant element to custody. The alternative is anarchy and people will die today on our roads as well as the possibility of future fatalities as yet unspecified from climate change.

The police are not tasked with preventing fatalities from global warming, they are tasked with not having bodies on our streets today.

 

[Ahleckz]

I think that is why the vast majority of the common sense population cannot get behind it because it is pointless just like the insulate Britain ones.

I personally think it is too late and uncontrollable especially around population control which is the key really to climate change but we cannot control that. These guys should be focusing their efforts on improving our flood defence than anything else.

Insulate Britain have surely been proven to be anything but pointless? If we had a nationwide insulation programme then it would have seriously reduced the cost of the support the government have had to do to lower energy bills this year and going forward. Again, poor methods but 100% the right message. Much like stop [new] oil.

 

[iamtheoneneo]

The police do get to decide what constitutes a breakdown in public order. If a tiny percentage of opinion decides to cause discord and chaos, no matter how righteous their position, the police have a duty to public order and remove that discordant element to custody. The alternative is anarchy and people will die today on our roads as well as the possibility of future fatalities as yet unspecified from climate change.

The police are not tasked with preventing fatalities from global warming, they are tasked with not having bodies on our streets today.

and how does arresting journalists that were standing on a bridge figure into that exactly?

 

[bigmike20vt]

Insulate Britain have surely been proven to be anything but pointless? If we had a nationwide insulation programme then it would have seriously reduced the cost of the support the government have had to do to lower energy bills this year and going forward. Again, poor methods but 100% the right message. Much like stop [new] oil.

i would say i fully 100% support insulate britains goals........ it boggles me that all new homes are not build far better than they are and the cost if done at construction would be a fraction of the cost of retrofitting.
it also saddens me when you look at how much spendign has gone down WRT retrofitting insulation.

but that being said, i would say insulate britain's protest HAS been pointless. What have they achieved? are houses still being poorly built? yep!, have their actions had any demonstrable effect on government investment in insulation?

so i would say insulate britains actions achieved very little other than to turn some fence sitters against their cause (which is a real shame).

 

[Tombstone]

i would say i fully 100% support insulate britains goals........ it boggles me that all new homes are not build far better than they are and the cost if done at construction would be a fraction of the cost of retrofitting.
it also saddens me when you look at how much spendign has gone down WRT retrofitting insulation.

but that being said, i would say insulate britain's protest HAS been pointless. What have they achieved? are houses still being poorly built? yep!, have their actions had any demonstrable effect on government investment in insulation?

so i would say insulate britains actions achieved very little other than to turn some fence sitters against their cause (which is a real shame).

I guess that is the difference between the question being , Is the message behind InsertProtestGroupHere pointless? And Is InsertProtestGroupHere pointless?

I suppose when looking at that, you have to be able to distinguish the boundaries between the reasons for the protest and the delivery method of the protest.

 

[Ahleckz]

i would say i fully 100% support insulate britains goals........ it boggles me that all new homes are not build far better than they are and the cost if done at construction would be a fraction of the cost of retrofitting.
it also saddens me when you look at how much spendign has gone down WRT retrofitting insulation.

but that being said, i would say insulate britain's protest HAS been pointless. What have they achieved? are houses still being poorly built? yep!, have their actions had any demonstrable effect on government investment in insulation?

so i would say insulate britains actions achieved very little other than to turn some fence sitters against their cause (which is a real shame).

I guess that is the difference between the question being , Is the message behind InsertProtestGroupHere pointless? And Is InsertProtestGroupHere pointless?

I suppose when looking at that, you have to be able to distinguish the boundaries between the reasons for the protest and the delivery method of the protest.

I wouldn’t say it was pointless. It moved the conversation on and it’s been adopted as a policy by Labour (or at least they have supported the idea). It’s unfortunate that our government don’t listen to these ideas and do things that help the general public but I don’t think it’s been entirely pointless. Outcome, yes but it’s raised awareness and hopefully becoming policy for Labour.
Don’t conflate the lack of interest from the current government with a lack of effectiveness of protest.

 

[Tombstone]

I wouldn’t say it was pointless. It moved the conversation on and it’s been adopted as a policy by Labour (or at least they have supported the idea). It’s unfortunate that our government don’t listen to these ideas and do things that help the general public but I don’t think it’s been entirely pointless. Outcome, yes but it’s raised awareness and hopefully becoming policy for Labour.
Don’t conflate the lack of interest from the current government with a lack of effectiveness of protest.

Tbh I dont pay heed to what a party who isnt in power but wants to be, says before they are in power. All too often what they claim as a policy before they are elected doesnt end up as a policy once elected. I've already covered many many times on these forums just how poorly strategised these protest groups are, they could achieve far more if they changed their tactics but its up to them to do that, I'm not being paid to change their campaign strategies so they can work it out themselves.

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

Insulate Britain have surely been proven to be anything but pointless? If we had a nationwide insulation programme then it would have seriously reduced the cost of the support the government have had to do to lower energy bills this year and going forward. Again, poor methods but 100% the right message. Much like stop [new] oil.

Only an idiot with no grasp of reality would ask for no new Oil, perhaps its just as simple as that.

 

[Hagar]

and how does arresting journalists that were standing on a bridge figure into that exactly?

Perhaps she was being a bit of a tart and lippy with the constable trying to perform his legal duty.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

One of our local protestors locked themselves by their neck to the gantry and hung there. Shame they didn’t slip.

 

[adam cool dude]

and how does arresting journalists that were standing on a bridge figure into that exactly?

It depends on whether that bridge was part of the motorway network or not. Also unfortunately you get yourself into these situations as a reporter and sometimes you get sucked into it through no fault of your own. A bit like those reporters in Ukraine that got shot at and killed.

 

[adam cool dude]

Insulate Britain have surely been proven to be anything but pointless? If we had a nationwide insulation programme then it would have seriously reduced the cost of the support the government have had to do to lower energy bills this year and going forward. Again, poor methods but 100% the right message. Much like stop [new] oil.

Insulate Britain is pointless in the grand scheme of things with climate change.

I am not insinuating that insulating your house is pointless and there were plenty of government grants for this decades ago. I am not disputing that but insulating your house is number 1001 in a long list of things and the effort these people go to for such an insignificant thing is laughable.

If these people did the real stuff like protesting mass immigration to reduce our carbon footprint in our country, protesting to make Nuclear Power stations to make our energy green and self sufficient, protesting to make our country more self sufficient in agriculture then it would gather the support of the vast majority of the country.

 

[CapitalOne]

Immigration

 

[CaptainRAVE]

and how does arresting journalists that were standing on a bridge figure into that exactly?

Well fair game for the one that allegedly didn’t have their pass on them. It’s local to me, so we’re going to hear about it endlessly.

 

[adam cool dude]

Immigration

I knew someone would laugh at that but look at it constructively. Immigration is the easy and cheap option of continuing the "western lifestyle", in laymans terms you essentially need more young to pay for the old which is a major problem for the whole of the developed first world. Countries that have plateaued in population are just kicking the can down the road whilst we should be looking at ways to become more self sufficient with what we already have instead of adding far more pollution to the problem by bringing more people in. When in reality we should be investing in technology to reduce the need for people to support the aging population.

A single person is magnitudes more polluting to the world than changing to EV's, stopping new oil or insulating your house.

 

[CapitalOne]

I knew someone would laugh at that but look at it constructively. Immigration is the easy and cheap option of continuing the "western lifestyle", in laymans terms you essentially need more young to pay for the old which is a major problem for the whole of the developed first world. Countries that have plateaued in population are just kicking the can down the road whilst we should be looking at ways to become more self sufficient with what we already have instead of adding far more pollution to the problem by bringing more people in. When in reality we should be investing in technology to reduce the need for people to support the aging population.

A single person is magnitudes more polluting to the world than changing to EV's, stopping new oil or insulating your house.

I don’t want to be mean at all, but the person has a carbon footprint whether they are here as a new born or an immigrant. Also they have that footprint regardless of where they are in Europe. I understand your point about population but that is not the same as immigration.

Merging climate issues with immigration sounds a bit daily mail to me. It would be very convenient for the failing government to merge the issues so they can deflect the blame for everything (which is exactly what they are trying to do).