Lan noise reducer

GoRedwings19 said:
I have a RA block and power leads. I also have Iso power lead and a Burmester one. All this stuff I got years ago. I did have a yello RA cable but since have got rid of it.
Click to expand...

Is your RA block the original one that was made years ago, it's an 8 socket one in a triangle / pyramid shape and comes with a mega clamp?
 
Last edited:
JasonM said:
OCD Hi-Fi Guy just posted a video on importance of filtering your AC.

www.youtube.com

MAKE your AUDIO SYSTEM SOUND BETTER !! Filtering AC POWER !!

#audio #hifi #music Breaking it down some more !Please SUBSCRIBE if you like my content !!Mikey
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
Click to expand...

So just to be clear. (clarification - here when I talk about "amp", "amplifiers' or "amplifying device" I'm talking about the semiconductor itself - be it any type of amplifying device construction - IC chip, an opamp, a BJT, JFET, MOSFET, darlington pair etc etc)

An amplifying device, inside the metal box that most people call an amp, has multiple inputs - audio signal and power signals. Any signal on those (unless designed to cancel out) will result in noise on the output.

Power AC is simply an efficiency measure for electrical distribution. Amplifier power is 99.9% of the time DC (ie it should not fluctuate). Preventing AC on a DC power rail is what your power supply filters and voltage regulators are there todo.

To compound things further - amplifiers as they amplify draw current from the power rails and thus cause their own signal on the DC power rail. This is what decoupling and power line inductors are there to reduce/eliminate and also your voltage regulators, however this is cost to an amp manufacturer.

Power conditioners are simply a way to create less noise (distortion of the AC signal is noise and creates frequencies other than the 50Hz sine wave of the mains AC power itself).


So filtering AC is irrelevant - what is really needed is clean DC to your amplifying device. How you achieve that (ie great amp power supply or lots of mystical components and active power conditioners etc ahead of that) is immaterial as long as the DC power rail is crystal clear. If you can ensure that the amplified signal noise (that includes any distortions caused by power line noise interacting with the digital/analogue processes) is below 120dB then you're really not going to hear any difference.

Lastly - AC power varies over the day, minute to minute. The AC RMS you know as 230V mains can vary as much as 10%.. my mains can be 253Vrms whereas yours may be below the 230Vrms and never get to that. This means if the power supply is not regulated, two people comparing the same things and mods on the same amp may get a different resulting sound. This is one of the annoyances with tube amps - the amplification process is not linear and as the AC varies, so too does the DC power rail and that then varies the non-linear curve of the tube amplification (ie the function of the input voltage audio signal to the output current varies with the same input). Only when you start regulating the power rails do you reduce that, however then the regulated power reduces the 'liveliness etc' when in reality voltage regulation works fine for audio frequencies but any noise in RF on that line they can't cope with, so noise into audio.. which changes the process .. etc etc.. (and sometimes causes oscillations which can show up in the audio listening as harsh treble - not that you're listening to the RF but the oscillation causes power draw that causes issues with amplifying the treble without distortion).

In short if your amp is designed correctly then you will not need mystical gadgets. And here is the rub - the majority of amps are not designed correctly... (even the posh ones)
 
Last edited:
NickK said:
So just to be clear. (clarification - here when I talk about "amp", "amplifiers' or "amplifying device" I'm talking about the semiconductor itself - be it any type of amplifying device construction - IC chip, an opamp, a BJT, JFET, MOSFET, darlington pair etc etc)

An amplifying device, inside the metal box that most people call an amp, has multiple inputs - audio signal and power signals. Any signal on those (unless designed to cancel out) will result in noise on the output.

Power AC is simply an efficiency measure for electrical distribution. Amplifier power is 99.9% of the time DC (ie it should not fluctuate). Preventing AC on a DC power rail is what your power supply filters and voltage regulators are there todo.

To compound things further - amplifiers as they amplify draw current from the power rails and thus cause their own signal on the DC power rail. This is what decoupling and power line inductors are there to reduce/eliminate and also your voltage regulators, however this is cost to an amp manufacturer.

Power conditioners are simply a way to create less noise (distortion of the AC signal is noise and creates frequencies other than the 50Hz sine wave of the mains AC power itself).


So filtering AC is irrelevant - what is really needed is clean DC to your amplifying device. How you achieve that (ie great amp power supply or lots of mystical components and active power conditioners etc ahead of that) is immaterial as long as the DC power rail is crystal clear. If you can ensure that the amplified signal noise (that includes any distortions caused by power line noise interacting with the digital/analogue processes) is below 120dB then you're really not going to hear any difference.

Lastly - AC power varies over the day, minute to minute. The AC RMS you know as 230V mains can vary as much as 10%.. my mains can be 253Vrms whereas yours may be below the 230Vrms and never get to that. This means if the power supply is not regulated, two people comparing the same things and mods on the same amp may get a different resulting sound. This is one of the annoyances with tube amps - the amplification process is not linear and as the AC varies, so too does the DC power rail and that then varies the non-linear curve of the tube amplification (ie the function of the input voltage audio signal to the output current varies with the same input). Only when you start regulating the power rails do you reduce that, however then the regulated power reduces the 'liveliness etc' when in reality voltage regulation works fine for audio frequencies but any noise in RF on that line they can't cope with, so noise into audio.. which changes the process .. etc etc.. (and sometimes causes oscillations which can show up in the audio listening as harsh treble - not that you're listening to the RF but the oscillation causes power draw that causes issues with amplifying the treble without distortion).

In short if your amp is designed correctly then you will not need mystical gadgets. And here is the rub - the majority of amps are not designed correctly... (even the posh ones)
Click to expand...

None of that makes any sense so I'll just hand over my money to a man who says a £8000 fuse makes my system sound better.
 
hornetstinger said:
None of that makes any sense so I'll just hand over my money to a man who says a £8000 fuse makes my system sound better.
Click to expand...

I found your lack of faith is disturbing. *mask breathing sounds*

Also £8000 would get you a decent starting point for a professional active power conditioner (and certainly a good one second hand/refurbished).
 
Last edited:
JasonM said:
Is your RA block the original one that was made years ago, it's an 8 socket one in a triangle / pyramid shape and comes with a mega clamp?
Click to expand...
Yes it is I originally bought 2 of them but sold one donkey years ago and still have the other which is currently not being used atm. Also got the silencer thingy and various bits and bobs from RA in the past but have moved away from them since.
 
If I can find out the schematic and the values I can simulate the frequency response in LTSpice - that would then say precisely what it does and if it's snake oil.
 
NickK said:
If I can find out the schematic and the values I can simulate the frequency response in LTSpice - that would then say precisely what it does and if it's snake oil.
Click to expand...

RA have different plug in products.

The Silencer it's designed to plug in next to noisy mains, so it eliminates the noise at source. The Purifier this plugs as close to components as possible, RA describe both of these as broadband filters. There is also a RA product called a Mega Clamp and this reduces voltage spikes once they go over around 350v, RA give a warning that a large surge such as from a thunderstorm could damage their clamp. The Silencer and Purifier remove harshness and give more detail. The MegaClamp adds warmth to the sound, and the amplifier sounds like it has less distortion in it. The differences they make you can hear if the plug-ins are removed while music is playing.
 
Last edited:
Well a clamp can just be a metal oxide varistor (MOV). They work but over time they begin to break down but it's easier to replace that the amp. You have to look at it like this - in order for the mains spike to have got to your amp it has to have gone through your house wiring and everything else attached to it.. and that means you really want a 'clamp' as close to the mains consumer box as possible..

230Vrms when rectified is 230/1.414 = 325V peak. Now given your mains can be, by standard, +10% at 252Vrms (mine is quite often) then 252/1.414 = 357Vpeak. One would hope that the mega clamp only conducts above 357Vpeak.. otherwise that's going to be like a short for your mains.. *pop*/*trip*.
I use a MOV for the toroidal transformers. When powered off, the inductor (ie transformer) field collapse causes a massive voltage spike. This is why you have diodes across relay coils too to provide a way of controlling the "flyback" which can reach very high voltages (the same principle for your old CRT with the lethal flyback transformer). The momentary short causes a loop for the power to return to the transformer and so you don't get a big spike.


Russ Andrews has been investigated by the advertising standards authority and found not to be able to provide evidence to support the claims (26 March 2008).

Usually the best option is measure the noise and problems then prescribe a fix, these are broadband and as any filter, would add additional attenuation to the existing filtration. This is why my -150dB ADC is running multiple steps of the power supply, each step provides additional filtering *and* as the dB scale is exponential, it means it gets harder and harder to drop further.

Don't get me wrong - I can see a filter adding value.. but the cost of the components (and the option to buy a couple of schaffner filters and put them in series) would probably give you a better result.
 
Last edited:
JasonM said:
RA have different plug in products.

The Silencer it's designed to plug in next to noisy mains, so it eliminates the noise at source. The Purifier this plugs as close to components as possible, RA describe both of these as broadband filters. There is also a RA product called a Mega Clamp and this reduces voltage spikes once they go over around 350v, RA give a warning that a large surge such as from a thunderstorm could damage their clamp. The Silencer and Purifier remove harshness and give more detail. The MegaClamp adds warmth to the sound, and the amplifier sounds like it has less distortion in it. The differences they make you can hear if the plug-ins are removed while music is playing.
Click to expand...
You keep using fluffy audiophile language how can removing noise or voltage spikes give more ‘detail’ or add ‘warmth’ what exactly is adding more detail to audio? Is it somehow adding more instruments or something? Audiophile language uses so many words that mean absolutely nothing.

The differences they make can be heard when the plugins are removed are heard because you are expecting to hear a difference.

Let someone add and remove them or not remove them and you not know if they are being used or not and I’ll bet you won’t guess correctly.
 
Last edited:
Broken Hope said:
You keep using fluffy audiophile language how can removing noise or voltage spikes give more ‘detail’ or add ‘warmth’ what exactly is adding more detail to audio? Is it somehow adding more instruments or something? Audiophile language uses so many words that mean absolutely nothing.

The differences they make can be heard when the plugins are removed are heard because you are expecting to hear a difference.

Let someone add and remove them or not remove them and you not know if they are being used or not and I’ll bet you won’t guess correctly.
Click to expand...

Noise gets into the analogue stage of DAC's degrading the performance. noise can also effect the digital timing clocks. Amplifiers can be effected by distortion of the AC waveform, at least this is how I understand it.

In a perfect world every PSU would perfectly filter the AC, however most don't and that's why these products help.
 
JasonM said:
Noise gets into the analogue stage of DAC's degrading the performance. noise can also effect the digital timing clocks. Amplifiers can be effected by distortion of the AC waveform, at least this is how I understand it.

In a perfect world every PSU would perfectly filter the AC, however most don't and that's why these products help.
Click to expand...

Can you actually demonstrate those claims?
 
JasonM said:
Noise gets into the analogue stage of DAC's degrading the performance. noise can also effect the digital timing clocks. Amplifiers can be effected by distortion of the AC waveform, at least this is how I understand it.

In a perfect world every PSU would perfectly filter the AC, however most don't and that's why these products help.
Click to expand...

Every one of those points can be objectively measured. Why do the manufacturers of these products not provide that data?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom