Lan noise reducer

[JasonM]

"Truth?"

Why would I hand money over to a company that has been reported to ASA?

He won the ASA case

Home

ASA rules that Russ Andrews did not mislead consumers in its advertisements about the reduction of radio frequency interference by its mains cables

www.whathifi.com

But if you don't like RA there are others iFi Audio, Chord, Audioquest, PS audio.

Or you could run a dedicated mains line and use a balanced mains unit like Mr Sukebe has done.

 

[JasonM]

You keep saying that but it's impossible as there will always be some bias when testing by yourself

If you can't tell any difference, then send them back. Or re-sell if buying pre-owned from eBay.

Not finding any improvement is actually a good thing, as you don't need the products. Over 2 years ago when I purchased some second hand RA Yello Power cables from eBay, I wish I had not noticed any difference, it would have saved me money as not continued any more.

 

[Firestar_3x]

So AudioHolics, which Gene has been in the industry for decades, have actually measured cheap vs expensive power cables, this guy has gear 99.99% of people can only dream of and measurement gear to match.

 

[Broken Hope]

So AudioHolics, which Gene has been in the industry for decades, have actually measured cheap vs expensive power cables, this guy has gear 99.99% of people can only dream of and measurement gear to match.

Obviously this won’t be listened to because he’s talking sense and showing measurements and audiophiles don’t like measurements because it makes them look stupid that they are not only spending money on things that don’t make a difference, but they also claim to hear differences that don’t actually exist.

 

[JasonM]

Obviously this won’t be listened to because he’s talking sense and showing measurements and audiophiles don’t like measurements because it makes them look stupid that they are not only spending money on things that don’t make a difference, but they also claim to hear differences that don’t actually exist.

I've seen that video before and I have respect for what he says.

The issue however is my RA power cables are still an improvement in sound quality over stock $5 IEC cable, nothing on the internet will change my view on this. I have some active studio monitors, if I put a $5 cable on one monitor and a RA power cable on the other, there is clear mismatch in the sound, yes the monitors sound perfectly balanced when matched power cables are used.

Not all power cables are the same, I have an Audioquest NRG-2 & Audioquest NRG-X2 I purchased from Peter Tyson at over 85% off last winter, the construction quality is very high, but I can't say I noticed any difference in sound with those.

I agree a group of us from here should get together and test cables and such, I'm happy to bring all my cables and mains items along with me. I'm happy to bring my Van Damme Silver interconnects also that make quite a difference also.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Can you actually demonstrate those claims?

Come and have a listen. I have offered.
Happy to set it up such that we could switch blind.
Do bear in mind that I'm not even the person who's positive about RA gear.

If you look through my various posts in this forum, I'd be surprised if you find ANY audio cable recommendations from me. I think that it's an absolute minefield.
Hence I'm quite interested in actually giving things another test, haven't done it in a LONG time.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Obviously this won’t be listened to because he’s talking sense and showing measurements and audiophiles don’t like measurements because it makes them look stupid that they are not only spending money on things that don’t make a difference, but they also claim to hear differences that don’t actually exist.

Just one point. Here's a link:

Reference System 1: Gene DellaSala

Our premier reference system belongs to Gene DellaSala (GDS), who performs some of our most technical and critical audio hardware reviews. This system features a main theater room which is very

www.audioholics.com

Quote from it:
"As any of our readers know, we are very critical on performance and value, especially involving cables. We avoid exotic cable companies that sell snake oil and only use and recommend legitimate cable manufacturers (typically ones that don’t buy football fields and rename them.) That being said, we called upon three of the best ones we have found: Blue Jeans Cable, Impact Acoustics, and DVI Gear."

So he's appropriately sceptical of stupidly priced cables, yep, I get that.
However, he then goes on to say that he does have a preference for cables, and lists three of them. That implies that he does think that some cables are better than others, regardless of their price. For example, a 1m pair of balanced cables are £33. No, that's not expensive, but it's also not bargain basement.

 

[SenTineL]

They don't happen to sponsor or provide the channel with free goodies by any chance?

 

[JasonM]

So he's appropriately sceptical of stupidly priced cables, yep, I get that.
However, he then goes on to say that he does have a preference for cables, and lists three of them. That implies that he does think that some cables are better than others, regardless of their price. For example, a 1m pair of balanced cables are £33. No, that's not expensive, but it's also not bargain basement.

You make a good point, if you watch his YouTube videos where he shows gear, he clearly uses cables that are not typical $5 IEC cables.

EDIT. He uses Kimber Kable on his reference system, I have stopped the video at the point he explains why.

So we have gone full circle now, my Russ Andrews power cables use Kimber Kable that Audioholics is using on their reference system.

If my Russ Andrews Kimber Kables are snake oil, explain why Audioholics use Kimber Kable also?

 

[Firestar_3x]

You make a good point, if you watch his YouTube videos where he shows gear, he clearly uses cables that are not typical $5 IEC cables.

EDIT. He uses Kimber Kable on his reference system, I have stopped the video at the point he explains why.

So we have gone full circle now, my Russ Andrews power cables use Kimber Kable that Audioholics is using on their reference system.

If my Russ Andrews Kimber Kables are snake oil, explain why Audioholics use Kimber Kable also?

He uses Kimber Cables for the "dress the system up" factor, he explains this in the video.

 

[NickK]

So AudioHolics, which Gene has been in the industry for decades, have actually measured cheap vs expensive power cables, this guy has gear 99.99% of people can only dream of and measurement gear to match.

Uses an Audio Precision which is a good 20-30K of equipment. Most of the audio manufacturers use those for audio reference testing.

 

[NickK]

The key issue is most mainstream RCA interconnects are cheap by design which impacts the sound.
After market which provide the right impedance, inductance and capacitance plus shielding for your system is custom.. hence more expensive.
Now if you want to blindly pay top dollar for interconnects that may not may not suit your system then so be it.. but in the end a correctly sized network interconnect with the right characteristics can be DIY’d..
i have chord interconnects.. from before I understood the electrical theory behind it. Still use them because they’re better than bellwire. Now I know the components I may look to make my own.. but to be honest better internals DAC etc is probably better (I would need to test and compare).

That AP has some great features with decent noise floor and THD freq generator that has a low enough distortion level too.
My ADC has a max of 120ish dynamic range but without a signal it will go to around -150dB. Not quite as good as the AP which hits 170dB with a larger dynamic range but that’s what AP get paid for…

 

[hornetstinger]

They don't happen to sponsor or provide the channel with free goodies by any chance?

Can't believe he didn't get that, free advertising of Kimber products, and increased the "mystigue" of owning magical Russ Andrews RF chokes at £1000 each, he is probably most well known audio tester so they must be good/real/magical if he uses them!!

 

[SonicSW20]

The issue however is my RA power cables are still an improvement in sound quality over stock $5 IEC cable, nothing on the internet will change my view on this.

Replace "American" with "Audiophile".

 

[NickK]

https://www.mouser.com/pdfDocs/schaffner-engineers-guide-designing-emi-filters1-13-17.pdf

That is basically what the RA filter is doing. You can daisy chain these two and save yourself some money..

 

[NickK]

What is funny is all this electrical stuff is measurable.. just need to define the tests and account for the variables.

What most forget is that you can simply hook up a sig gen and measure the frequency response (bode) with the mains not connected and see the impact.

 

[NickK]

I’ll test a couple of mains cables tonight .. up to 60MHz..

 

[ZeroG]

For some reason when I read the title I thought this was something for LAN parties...

 

[JasonM]

The key issue is most mainstream RCA interconnects are cheap by design which impacts the sound.
After market which provide the right impedance, inductance and capacitance plus shielding for your system is custom.. hence more expensive.

My interconnects are custom made from Van Damm Lo-Cap silver cable, and there far better then typical cheap interconnects. 1 meter can be purchased pre-made for around £35.

Silver Series Session Grade Instrument Cable | Van-Damme

Silver series session grade instrument cables engineered to three specific capacitances used for guitar and ass guitar amplifier applications.

www.van-damme.com

 

[JasonM]

I’ll test a couple of mains cables tonight .. up to 60MHz..

This test was done on a Kimber Power cable upto 3Ghz

What a Difference a Wire Makes

Testing the RF transmission of Kimber Kable, up to 3GHz, at Ben Duncan Research Labs, in 2008. The resulting proof of RF rejection was published on-line by Russ Andrews Accessories in England. (Photo: Naomi Swain).

www.stereophile.com

It's not just the AC power on a mains cable, but the RF that's also contained in the mains. This RF gets into sensitive audio equipment decreases sound quality. This RF is not your typical pops, or cracks, it's far more subtle and you only appreciate the improvement in sound once it's removed. 20 years ago it was less of an issue, however today more of the radio spectrum is used. The Kimber weave rejects some of this RF, so the cheaper ones are 4TC, then 8TC and the most expensive 12TC. Of course there are other ways such as after market inline filters, but I don't own those, I'm also not confident adding the filters like yourself.

If you remember back in the days of 2G phones when they would handshake with another phone mast, and your car radio would pick up the noise. The noise getting into audio components is like this, however it's far more subtle than the noise the 2G phone made.

It's the same principle with the Ethernet, typical Ethernet ports don't stop all RF, it's why I use those cheap Delock ethernet filters that are sold mainly for hospitals.

Another example of how bad things can get. I knew someone who lived next to a phone mast, and they could put a volt meter on their radiator as the radiators were picking up the transmission power from the mast, they happened to once own their own electronics business so they understood what was happening with energy radiating from the phone mast far more than I did.

Ham radio operators have known about the RF for years, somewhere in this thread I posted a blog from a Ham radio operator who wrapped ethernet cables in Ferret cores and measured the drop in RF.