Laura Trevelyan

NVP said:
I understood your imaginary perspective. Indian MP's and activists have been pushing this for many, many years - not simply as a ruse to power like you suggest may occur.



Excuse me?
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I mean you are obviously descended from a country wanting reparations.
 
Please tell me how that changes any validity of my posts, or enlighten me as to the reason that matters?
 
adidan said:
What of the African slavers that the Europeans traded with? Several nations waged war on others in Africa to capture people for the slave trade. Plus there's the Arab slave trade to consider too.

it's a far more complex situation.

Go back to the 9th century and it was the Spanish Muslims that enslaved European Slavs (hence where the name comes from).

Like I say, complex and horrific.
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They were not Spanish, they were North Africans, who invaded and controlled half of Spain. Up to this day they still want to claim that land as Muslim.
 
I reckon if i lived a cushty very comfortable life having been born into a wealthy family who profited heavily from the slave trade (regardless of the races involved) id probably feel a bit guilty even though I had nothing to do with any of it, it wouldn't be guilt in terms of feeling like a bad person but rather in terms of enjoying the privileged lifestyle I inherited partly from wealth gained from slave trade.

Now if im slumming it, earning minimum wage and someone is like 'your great grandad slaved my parents, give me money' id probably have a slightly different attitude, id feel bad for what my grandparents did to their parents but seeing as I've had seemingly no financial benefit from it id probably raise an eyebrow to someone demanding money.

Out of interest has there been any high-profile cases in the UK of people demanding reparations from other random members of the public because of what their family did 150 years ago or whatever ? or is the issue of reparations mainly centered around whether our government should be paying out to other countries or not?
 
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NVP said:
Please tell me how that changes any validity of my posts, or enlighten me as to the reason that matters?
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It obviously causes a large degree of bias on your side.

It just makes me mad. Me and my family (definitely back at least to GG grandparents) have never profited financially from slavery. Why should my families tax money then be used to pay reparations for something none of us have taken part in?

Its as good as stealing our cash.
 
Mrwong said:
They were not Spanish, they were North Africans, who invaded and controlled half of Spain. Up to this day they still want to claim that land as Muslim.
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Well, yes. I meant the African Muslims who invaded Spain but should have been specific.

Lots of back and forth between there. It was only relatively recently I realised Spain still had territory in North Africa so the EU technically has a border with it.
 
I think it would be more beneficial if instead of reparations an alliance of western countries took over the running of some African nations with a deal for billions in investment, as well as access to western countries resources to bring those countries up to our standard. I'd rather have them become richer than we become poorer.

It would benefit the people in those countries. But not to professional advocates over here. I suspect the idea would be called neocolonialism.
 
robfosters said:
It obviously causes a large degree of bias on your side.

It just makes me mad. Me and my family (definitely back at least to GG grandparents) have never profited financially from slavery. Why should my families tax money then be used to pay reparations for something none of us have taken part in?

Its as good as stealing our cash.
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People won't or at best are often reluctant to take responsibility even for the actions of their own children, so quite why anyone would think I'd be happy buying a new limousine and palace for some dodgy leader of a foreign government i don't know, `cos that's where "reparations" would probably end up.

I have zero issues with historic acts now viewed as reprehensible. Move on, people of colour are in the majority in our three major cities, we have done more than enough for them, much more. Too much IMO.
 
adidan said:
Well, yes. I meant the African Muslims who invaded Spain but should have been specific.

Lots of back and forth between there. It was only relatively recently I realised Spain still had territory in North Africa so the EU technically has a border with it.
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Interesting legal point I have never considered... :)
 
There's some serious mental gymnastics required to justify and enforce the payment of reparations against the descendants of people hundreds of years later who did not willingly participate in the events, especially when slave trading has sadly been a part of life for all civilisation at some stage, regardless of race, creed or colour. How about instead of focusing on the past we focus on the real world slavery going on today?

www.gov.uk

2021 UK annual report on modern slavery (accessible version)

www.gov.uk www.gov.uk

All I see are narcissists and entitled opportunists when I read articles like this in the OP.
 
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NVP said:
If that is the logic you use then there is no more bias than on "your side" :rolleyes:
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I have thought about it from the other side, and there is no way I would accept innocent people in a country that once subjugated mine, paying for what their ancestors did. It’s totally preposterous
 
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robfosters said:
I have thought about it from the other side, and there is no way I would accept innocent people in a country that once subjugated mine, pay for what their ancestors did. It’s totally preposterous
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"Reparations" can be required for more than the enslavement of people.

Britain is prosperous off the backs of many nations, reparations being made at an international level I am fully in agreement with.

Re: individual reparations around slavery - I think that requires a much more in-depth analysis, as there is potential for corporations who benefitted to resolve, but there are many factors involved.
 
NVP said:
"Reparations" can be required for more than the enslavement of people.

Britain is prosperous off the backs of many nations, reparations being made at an international level I am fully in agreement with.

Re: individual reparations around slavery - I think that requires a much more in-depth analysis, as there is potential for corporations who benefitted to resolve, but there are many factors involved.
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What’s your idea of reparations. What reparations should be made?
 
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