London pollution & ULEZ

[explicit4u]

A group of 'vigilantes' calling themselves the Blade Runners have been busy recking ULEZ cameras in london:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1695509487438660025

While I do agree with the policy its probably horrible timing to do it during a cost of living crisis, and theres a very valid argument that transport in the area it now affects is poor by central London standards.

 

[StriderX]

Should just take it out of their council budgets.

 

[CapitalOne]

“Freedom activists”

 

[Hagar]

As Germany is the most polluting and the most car intensive country in Europe according to the Guardian, perhaps we should just ban German cars in London and major cities. There seem to be a lot about and it may be popular.

They are often driven as though they are invading Belgium as well.

 

[CapitalOne]

As Germany is the most polluting and the most car intensive country in Europe according to the Guardian, perhaps we should just ban German cars in London and major cities. There seem to be a lot about and it may be popular.

They are often driven as though they are invading Belgium as well.

Have you had that first coffee yet?

 

[Hagar]

Have you had that first coffee yet?

Just imbibing it now, hence the brilliant, thought provoking ideas.

 

[floatindolphin]

I just checked and with my 3.0 diesel I don’t need to pay the charge, seems odd?

 

[Quartz]

Check out 'approach 4'

https://twitter.com/x/status/1695790978236350619

Source PDF is here. Approach 4 is detailed on pages 44 - 46.

 

[StriderX]

Wouldn't be much of an option paper if it ignored options.

 

[CapitalOne]

Tories will of course try and spin against Khan, because he's successful

Again, who's decided to give free school meals to all kids? Or is that some kind of compassionate rouse on his part?

Kippers running scared.

 

[Hades]

Is this like one of those consultations where the authority says they will consult with the population before ignoring all the objections?

 

[ubersonic]

I just checked and with my 3.0 diesel I don’t need to pay the charge, seems odd?

It has nothing to do with the actual emissions/polution of the vehicle as that would be too complicated for government, it's basically just going off age, so effectively the more your car is worth the less likely you are to have to pay, hence why it's considered a tax on the poor.

 

[Harlequin]

Vauxhall is French - owned by Stellantis, which is PSA group

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Vauxhall is French - owned by Stellantis, which is PSA group

We know…

It doesn’t stop Vauxhall being a ‘British brand’ like Jaguar being owned by Tata and Mini being owned by BMW from being associated as ‘British’.

And no, Vauxhall, is the ‘British’ version of an Opal which is a German brand owned by a ‘French’ company.

 

[Tony Edwards]

I just checked and with my 3.0 diesel I don’t need to pay the charge, seems odd?

It has nothing to do with the actual emissions/polution of the vehicle as that would be too complicated for government, it's basically just going off age, so effectively the more your car is worth the less likely you are to have to pay, hence why it's considered a tax on the poor.

It is due to the emmissions you vehicle pushes out the tailpipe not age. Where the age comes in is that it makes it easier to recognise what is likely to come out. A lot of motorbikes had to put catalytic converters on to be compliant.

Ways to meet the LEZ standards

If your vehicle doesn't meet the emissions standards, there are a number of things you can do

tfl.gov.uk

Ways to meet the LEZ standards​

London road user charging​

Sign inCreate account
If your vehicle doesn't meet the Low Emission Zone (LEZ) emissions standards, there are things you may be able to do.

Replace your vehicle​

You could upgrade to a newer vehicle that meets the standards or an electric vehicle. Find out more about replacing your vehicle.

Retrofit your vehicle​

Check your vehicle to see if it meets the LEZ emissions standards. If it doesn’t, you may be able to retrofit your vehicle with emissions reduction technology.

Emissions reduction technology​

Emissions reduction technologies include:

• Selective catalytic reduction, which reduces NOx emissions
• Replacement Euro VI engines
• Converting a vehicle to electric power

Retrofit technologies need to be approved by the Clean Vehicle Retrofit Accreditation Scheme (CVRAS). This government scheme, funded by Defra, establishes common standards for all Clean Air Zone cities.
CVRAS has certified emissions reduction technologies for certain buses, coaches, HGVs, and refuse vehicles.
As retrofits need to be calibrated to specific vehicle models, and not all vehicles can be covered. We expect more conversions to be available in the future.

What sort of cars have to pay a LEZ or ULEZ charge?

• Motorcycles that don't meet Euro 3 standards.
• Petrol cars, vans, minibuses that don't meet Euro 4 standards.
• Diesel cars, vans and minibuses that don't meet Euro 6 standards.
• Lorries, buses, coaches and heavy vehicles that don't meet Euro 6 (Nox and PM) standards.

 

[bigmike20vt]

It has nothing to do with the actual emissions/polution of the vehicle as that would be too complicated for government, it's basically just going off age, so effectively the more your car is worth the less likely you are to have to pay, hence why it's considered a tax on the poor.

not really. whilst it is true newer vehicles tend to get a pass it's only because they were built to fall inside certain emission limits.

diesel cars need to be newer than petrol but only because they only hit certain levels more recently.

(controversial statement) if anything the ULEZ limits are too slack.

 

[ubersonic]

not really. whilst it is true newer vehicles tend to get a pass it's only because they were built to fall inside certain emission limits.

While the spirit of ULEZ is supposed to be about emissions, the reality is that they don't have the ability (or maybe just not the money) to design it that way so they have come up with a failed weighting that ends up more reflective of vehicle age/value than of actual emissions. This is why the public/media refer to it as a tax on the poor, because the more likely you are to be affected by ULEZ the less likely you are to be able to afford it.

This is why a newish 5 litre V8 with £700 VED in the maximum band (Over 255g/km) is fully ULEZ compliant as is a 3.5L V6 Turbo sports car, yet an older family hatchback with a third/quarter of the emissions is not.

Fining poor people for not being able to afford a newer car is not going to help the environment, especially when in many cases they're being forced to lease a more polluting car to avoid it.

It is due to the emmissions you vehicle pushes out the tailpipe not age. Where the age comes in is that it makes it easier to recognise what is likely to come out.

Wrong, read above.

 

[jpaul]

This is why a newish 5 litre V8 with £700 VED in the maximum band (Over 255g/km) is fully ULEZ compliant as is a 3.5L V6 Turbo sports car, yet an older family hatchback with a third/quarter of the emissions is not.

not sure carbon dioxide is part of the euro emissions reqmt ... but I do agree that whether the other emissions, which are,
are within tolerances for the short trips that people might take in the ULEZ in their v8

( & considering the other pollutants I mentioned )
- and what causes premature death ? nox - so my euro4 petrol is only 1/3 more than euro5 ... so let's tax based on miles in ulez

Prof. Roy Harrison FRS, Professor of Environmental Health, University of Birmingham, said:​

Our recent studies in London and Paris demonstrate that the nitrogen dioxide, deriving predominantly from diesels now has a far greater impact on premature mortality than particle emissions from road traffic. This further emphasises the need for motor manufacturers to focus their efforts on reducing oxides of nitrogen emissions from diesels.”​

​

Euro 4 emission limits (petrol)​

CO – 1.0 g/km​

HC – 0.10 g/km​

NOx – 0.08​

PM – no limit​

Euro 4 emission limits (diesel)​

CO – 0.50 g/km​

HC+ NOx – 0.30 g/km​

NOx – 0.25 g/km​

PM – 0.025 g/km​

​

Euro 5 emission limits (petrol)​

CO – 1.0 g/km​

HC - 0.10 g/km​

NOx – 0.06 g/km​

PM – 0.005 g/km (direct injection only)​

Euro 5 emission limits (diesel)​

CO – 0.50 g/km​

HC+ NOx – 0.23 g/km​

NOx – 0.18 g/km​

PM – 0.005 g/km​

PM – 6.0x10 ^11/km​

 

[Tony Edwards]

Wrong, read above.

 

[Mr Jack]

This is why a newish 5 litre V8 with £700 VED in the maximum band (Over 255g/km) is fully ULEZ compliant as is a 3.5L V6 Turbo sports car, yet an older family hatchback with a third/quarter of the emissions is not.

Completely wrong.

ULEZ is not about CO2 emissions.